Ok so before I get to the "what do you think" part of this thread here's a little background.

I have joint custody of my 4 year old son but I am the custodial parent and my ex has visitational rights (Every other holiday and every August - my ex chose August so it wouldn't interfere with school - therefore I have my son 11 months out of the 12). Per our written and court agreements and orders, he's supposed to pay child support and 1/2 of tuition and extra-curricular activities (all due to joint custody).

Back in 2006 when this order was in place, my ex picks up my son for the month of August but does so through the end of the first week of August (I live in NYC and at the time he was living in Wisconsin). He knows that he's supposed to return our son back to me by no later than midnight of August 31st, but calls me up on the 30th telling me he's not returing our son to me and wants to keep him a few weeks longer "what's the difference between tomorrow or a few weeks?" this prick asks me. Long story short, it took my attorney's phone call and the possible kidnapping charges my ex wereto face for him to bring my son back to me (3 Days late, September 3, 2006 @ 4:22 PM...yea I'm a freak for remembering but this is MY kid). He then wanted our son for Thanksgiving, but wanted him for 3 weeks...obviously I said no considering what had happend over the summer....so I told him he could have him for Thanksgiving Day...yup that's right....just the day. The court order never specified holiday weekend/week etc....just said holiDAY. Needless to say he threw a hissy fit.

Last August my ex couldn't take our son due to his military duties (he re-joined after his girlfriend got pregnant). Fine ok...that's not within my control and not within his control. He has not requested any holidays and his calls prior to March of this year has been every other month if not every 3 months. Before you start to question, yes I always answer when he calls if we are home to get the call, and if he leaves a message for our son b/c he wants to talk to him we always call back. I'm not the one to cut off communication as I know it builds the relationship between my son and his "father". Unfortunately, he's still does not call on relationship building regular basis (he's averaging a once a month phone call).

So...August is fast approaching since I have no idea where May and June went and know that July will fly by just as quick. My ex emails me (my preferred method of communication with him) telling me he can't pick up our son in August due to military training but wants him for the month of September instead. So I emailed him back and said I'd need some time to think it over since our son is starting Pre-K and will be going to a new school with new teachers and kids than from his daycare and nursery school and just want to know their school schedule and attendance policy. Unfortunately he emails me back and in a not so nice way tells me that my email answer is not acceptable and that he will be picking up our son at the very end of August and will be keeping him for the month in September. On top of that has stated he will be picking him up again in November to spend a few "weeks" before he deploys. Needless to say my first reaction is anger and wishing harm upon him. Ok....so here are my questions that I need opinions on.

Is it just me or do us as parents realize that when 4 year olds enter pre-k it's not just fingerpainting and recess (according to my ex that's what he thinks it is that they do) but it's about learning to form letters to create words, learning to read simple basic words, learning the basics of addition and subtraction and learning to write etc...?

Is it wrong for me not to want my son to go with him for the month of Sept and miss the first days and month of a new school and curriculum?

Am I being paranoid or just knowing from past experience that if my ex finds a way (legally of course) to have our son for the month of September that there's a good chance he will not be back by the end of the month? What happens if my ex can't leave the military base? What happens if his deployment pushes up earlier? Lord knows it's not like I can go on post and pick up my son myself since the city's PD has no jurisdiction on a military installation.

I know it's the right thing to do for my ex to see our son before he deploys but is it wrong of me to not want that to happen? Or if it HAS to happen to have it as a supervised visitation?

Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated! Please help!!!!

Tough questions. What I would do and what I'm going to say is probably going to contradict. My initial thought was, NO WAY! If he can't see him in August, too darn bad. The court order says he's to have him in August NOT September .. and ya, he's going to a new school which is an important milestone in his life.

Then I start thinking .. he's in the military. You've said so yourself, it's out of his control. Should he be calling more than once a month? Most definitely, but is his lack of effort have anything to do with the military? Is he on duty which makes it difficult for him to contact your son consistently? You seem to really want to encourage their relationship so, is it possible for you to allow the flexibility, due to the fact that his situation is clearly out of his control?

Also, I'm not sure what they teach in the US pre-K but in Canada, Kindergarten is optional and not mandatory, let alone pre-K. Everything they're teaching in p-K could be taught by you for a month that he's gone. An option is to contact the centre and ask them what they'll be focussing on during that month. Children are resilient. At that age, I don't think your son will have a difficult time transitioning into the centre if he misses a month.

Bottom line, it depends how important their relationship is to you. It's up to you. Either give him November and not September or give him September but not November. That's just my thinking. You have to do what's best for your son and not think about how your ex is driving you insane. If I were you, I'd be battling this constantly in my own head but my ex is not in the military .. he's just a dead-beat.

hey tea,
the thing that i keep focusing in on is that whole first day of school feeling when everyone is insecure and awkward and afraid. the playing field is pretty level.

by joining in october he is now the new kid trying to bust in to groups or cliques that have already formed. no it is not impossible, but it definitely makes a difficult situation more difficult.

i'd convey these thoughts to the ex and ask for a meet in the middle place like mid october to mid november he spends with his dad. this way he can get settled a bit in pre k and be missed rather than be the geeky new kid. it'll give him a month and it'll give him time before deployment without taking too much away from your son.

keeping the focus on all your son and how he will feel should help a bit, though i dont know your ex....

Thanks gals for your advice.

Miss Jes - Not to be a spiteful person but by no means is my ex a nice person. There is no way I would ever want my son to turn out like him. However, the only reason I want my ex to build a relationship with our son is so my son can find out for himself what a real jerk his father is (I don't want my feelings or opinions of his dad to weigh in on his decision about him).

Laurie - I totally get what you're saying and I've tried to emphasize what is best for our son to my ex. But sadly, my ex doesn't care about anyone else's feelings or what's best for anyone else except for himself.

My ex always wants everyone else to revolve around his schedule. And now that he's back in the military, he uses that "military card" as his excuse. I'm the type of person who can empathize with others, but I'm not the type of person who will use their career as an excuse especially with him since it is a career he has chosen and knows what is required of him etc. Please don't misunderstand, I am not holding the military responsible from his lack of relationship with his son since I do applaud many of those in the military for their service. It's just that my ex who just so happens to be in the military pisses me off since he is the type of guy who gives the military men a bad name.

I do know that it is important that my sons sees my ex before he deploys, but demanding my son to be with him and miss the month of September b/c he can't have his visitation in August and then again for the month of November before he deploys is a bit too much. I can see a week or two before he deploys in November to be there but seriously to miss 2 months of school when it's a new school with new kids and teachers? I don't want to make up excuses for my ex, but I can't really blame him for thinking early education isn't that important. My ex didn't even finish regular high school or even get his GED. He took one lousey test (that most 8th graders take to get into a private high school) which is easier than the GED and got his high school equivalent diploma. Not to mention that no one in his family has actually graduated high school. Maybe I'm a snob since my parents instilled in me that giving your child the best education you can give them is the best gift. I know I can catch my son up if he misses a month of school, but why would he think it's ok for my son to miss his first days and weeks of Pre-K but it's ok that his live-in girlfriend's kids can attend kindergarten and pre-k? Am I wrong in thinking that he is just selfish? Am I wrong in saying, point proven again that he is and never was ready to be a parent since he doesn't think of his son's feelings and well being?

Ugh...seriously have any of you just wanted to take a baseball bat and beat some common sense into some people??? *sigh*

Hate to say it but you probably should get the lawyer involved again. Especially since the month of August is spelled out in your agreement, it seems. Have send you and the lawyer copies of his orders. You send him the curriculum or whatever of the Pre-K school, so that he understands it's not all playing with blocks, fingerpainting and playing in the sandbox. Given his track record I don't think you're being unreasonable at all.

I totally understand what you're saying and people like him get under my skin as well. Really though, you already have the court order. You don't have to give him anything more than what's been agreed already. If you don't want to give an inch (for obvious reasons) then don't. There's nothing he can do about it and you wouldn't get into any legal trouble.

I gave my ex an opportunity to be in our son's life as well. I say "I gave" because the deal was, if he chose to come into his life then he would have to commit to him for life. If he couldn't handle that than I didn't want him to move back here at all. Well, long story short, he came and now he's gone in less than one year. In a way I kind of expected it but I also wanted my son to see who his dad really is. Now, he doesn't even call him 'dad'. He calls him by his first name. I'm thinking he's starting to understand that 'dad' is not the God he thought he was. Your son will too.

I feel for you. I am lucky/unlucky enough that my son's father has not been too interested in anything outside of his own life. It makes our life ( me and my son's)a very peaceful one.
However in your situation, you need to contact your attorney again and have you attorney contact your ex and tell him what the agreement is and nip all of this negotiation.
Beyond what he learns in pre-k, the most important thing for children in adjusting is the establishment of routine. And starting him in the middle, if this is even allowed as many schools with structured programs do not, would put your son at a serious disadvantage for adjusting.
However this does not mean your ex cannot see your son. There is nothing stopping him from coming and spending time with him on your son's turf. If it is truly important to him, he will come to your son rather than making your son come to him.
If that is agreeable to you, have that put in writing to him. That he can see him in the afternoons after school and on the weekends for whatever period in your city. And if it truly matters to him, he would pay whatever for the hotel or stay with someone and spend the time. If not, then it truly isn't important to him.

quote:

Ugh...seriously have any of you just wanted to take a baseball bat and beat some common sense into some people??? *sigh*

Hahaha, I did/do want to gut mine like a fish, does that count.

Anyway first things first...
What your ex thinks and feels does NOT take priority over your kids, period. Military or not, that was his choice and if hes not going on the front lines well all is normal business.

Im sure your ex could find a day or two free to visit if he cant , again thats his reponsibility, not your.

Kids are NOT always resilient, [i.e. suicides, childhood alcoholism, huffing, cutting, builima,runaways, defiant/lying, etc.] Thus this the true nature of pre-K it was set up for less privilaged children to have an opportunity for a 'social structure'. How one must behave, working in groups, and on ones own with other around and not have their attention deviate from their own tasks. And of course, the basics of read, write and arithmetic. It also allow a professional to validate the readiness of the child prior to kindergarten so not to be held back in that grade or fall behind at that grade. Thus a non risk child would have maybe a nanny at least once a week, or a stay at home mom, or the child has already attended classes as karate, dance, piano, etc.

As Mis Jes has stated, you are under no legal obigation except for August. Thus You would not be found in fault at all. Plz do NOT think that you can control relationships between your son and his father, that is his reponibility, you have enough on your plate as it is just looking out for your son, so he will thrive, and grow healthy - mentally, and physically, let alone for your self so you stay strong so that you can continue looking out for your children.

As J's Mommy pionts out "... this does not mean your ex cannot see your son. There is nothing stopping him from coming and spending time with him on your son's turf. If it is truly important to him, he will come to your son rather than making your son come to him."


And the next time he withhold your child from you without prior written agreement, you contact the MP's of the base fax them your order and they WILL talk with your ex, or call the regiments/platoon Chaplain and Fax him and ask that he talk with his Commanding officer.

Im sure he would not want his commanding officer knowing about a moral/legal disruption.

I hope that helps, and really the bottom line is as others have said, the choice is yours, and an informed choices is always the best.

Peace
Robin

Thank you everyone for all your advice! I know it may not seem like enough but your advice and experiences mean so much to me! I already have a meeting set up with my attorney next week (not only to talk to him about this situation, but to also get my finalized divorce papers....WOOHOO!)

Again, thank you!!!!!!!!!!

As a father I have to say that I don't see anything wrong with trying to accommodate his schedule and for my own experience a judge won't care about missing P-K. May be if you let him have him in Sept then negotiate 2 more weeks before he deploys, you know, if something happens to him you'll regret it for a long time.

I don't know.....if I had to deal with someone like that TELLING me how it's going to go, I think I would rebel. I would be reminding him that the court order has to be followed and if he has training in August, too bad. That's his month and if it interferes, HE needs to do something about that (i.e. go back to court to get it modified). I feel that you should do no legwork for him. If something not under his control is messing up his parenting plan then HE needs to take action, not you.

Pre-K IS A VERY IMPORTANT time in a child's life. It is helping them prep for school. You can even fight this by having some sort of layout from his teachers as to what academics he will be learning. As a teacher with an early childhood education endorsement, I know that they learn how to socialize appropriately, learn manners, math, reading, writing and social studies (learning the world around them). They also work on gross and fine motor skills so that they can function in Kindergarten. Some people don't realize that in Kindergarten, the teacher expects the child to know their alphabet and how to write their name!

I have the highest respect for those who serve in the military. From that point I want to say let him see his son before he is deployed. On the other hand my maternal instincts come in. They are saying something is not right.

First, does the pre-k even allow students to come in a month late? That might answer the problem immediately. Pre-K is not required but definitely recommended. For those who do not know, in general, children who have attended Pre-K do much better in school than those who have not. I am sure judges know this and would consider this. Although I do not believe it would even need to go to a judge. You do not need to do anything that is not in the paper work, although as you know you can if you want. I would ask the school what they would recommend if it is necessary for you son to miss some school. If your Ex could come and see your son that would be the best.
Now I am not sure if I am understanding this correctly. From what I can understand your Ex wants your son for a total of a month and a half? That is a BIG difference from nothing. I would worry that my kids would feel abandoned by me. I don't think I would go for all that extra time. Hopefully I have misunderstood the background story.

In the end, he can not force you to do anything that you feel is not in the best interest of your child. Have you asked your son what he wants? Maybe that could help. Wish I had more concrete advice to give you.

Thanks everyone for your advice!

Singlein08 please don't misunderstand, I do have the highest respect for the military. Being a former military spouse I know how hard they train and what sacrafices they make. I especially know the toll their jobs take on their families. I still have a few cousins who are still in the service and some really good friends who are still serving. My ex just annoys the heck out of me b/c it's guys like him that give the military a bad name. Also you didn't misunderstand....my ex wanted my son for a a little over a month and a half...the full month of September and 3 weeks in November.

But, I've actually just made my decision and emailed it to the ex. He's not going to be taking my son for a whole month and a half....if he is free to take him in the month of September, then he can come up for two weekends in September to visit him here. This way, my son will not miss school and he can still spend time with him. I'm not quite sure how this compromise is going to fly with my ex but it's definitely better than me saying no completely right? I mean wouldn't you travel to see your kid?

I'm sorry if came across that I thought you were unrespectful of military men. That was not my intention, and that is not what I think. Just as in every other profession, you have those that are not deserving of the respect because of their actions. This is what it sounds like your ex is like. I can not believe what he is asking for. You just stand by your decision. You know what is best for your child. You are right, he should be fine coming to see your child.

Sounds like a good plan. Your ex probably won't like it but we all have to make compromises. I think your making the right choice here. Pre K may not be so necesary from an academic standpoint but your son needs the time to develop the social skills that comes from being with others his age. I think it is more important for kids of divorce because often they are the ones with lower self esteem and problems adjusting to new environments. The solution your proposing is a win win situation fo both your son and his father. Kudos to you.