Well, there are many more tasteful ways of describing this man that would of allowed us to understand your story. The fact that you're in the spectrum disorder yourself, doesn't make it ok to disrespect others with a disorder. In fact, it could make you even more compassionate and understanding - not continue on w the jabs as many people do. It's rude and hateful sounding.

Sorry but not everyone knows your story. Again, I've grown to know you a little and know your intentions weren't to be offensive, but I'm giving you a heads-up! It was.

Ok relax Big bobby! As I stated I took nothing to heart just found the word offensive. So relax and don't get upset. You know you are dealing w/many people that belong to this board that are very different from everyone here. So sue me if I felt offended and stated it. Geez. Maybe people on this board need to remember that very fact.

SPIRIT

Tuscan:
I remember you from before, so I was pretty sure that you didn't mean for this thread to insult anyone. I hope my response wasn't taken as an accusation. My intention was to just point out how it could be insulting when read by a fast food worker, even though you probably didn't mean for it to be. Thanks for clearing things up in your response.


Jes/Spirit:
It seems that I unintentionally insulted you guys by using the words handicapped and retarded. I can't agree, however, that those words should never be used. The medical definitions of these words are not derogatory. Most people understand the words to be synonyms for having physical and mental disabilities of a severity that it's noticable and affects their everyday life. In my story, I was describing a person who had noticable mental disabilities...the word retarded was appropriately used.

I really had to take a moment to relax before writing this, however, because political correctness is an issue I deal with personally on a regular basis. When I became a teenage parent, I fell pretty far into poverty. A side effect was that I got to experience the lifestyles of other groups that also find themselves in poverty; handicapped and retarded people are two of those groups. Jeez, in the government complex where we first lived, there was an entire building of severely handicapped people. In the economically depressed neighborhood where I currently live, there is much higher concentration of handicapped and retarded people than the average...10% of my son's elementary school classes had some severe handicap. Every day we interact with disabled people and you know, my experience has been that they want you to be honest with them. You are treating them more like peers by acknowledging their situation and moving past it; you're not helping them by demanding convoluted terms be used to describe them. Really...so many of these people are just worried about day to day living...they couldn't care less what the college-crowd thinks they should be called...

Anyway, I hope that I held back some of the frustration that's accumulated from the many times that I've been attacked for using words someone found to be politically incorrect. There are so many worthwhile liberal causes...and combating public slurs of social groups is one of them...but to be offended by a term used appropriately is not doing a service to anyone.

Later,
Bobby

Edited to Add: I wrote this offline and pasted it later...it was written before I read the last two responses.

I think the word "retarded" would be appropriately used in describing some of our ex's. Mine is a social "retard" meaning held back, not knowing the way to act tactfully at his age. IE: Not knowing that 35 year olds should have the knack to know that you dont hang up the phone on people mid sentance. (In the grand scheme of things.)

I try and avoid using ANY labels if at all possible. You're right, they ARE people before their disability. Such words as 'retarded' and 'handicapped' is nothing more than a degrading label. It doesn't define their disability nor does it define who they really are - people. It only puts IT before them. I also disagree with what you've said that these people want us to be honest with them by calling them retards. If you want to be honest with them, talk to them about their disability (by proper name) or just treat them like human. I don't think calling them handicaps and retards is normalizing ANY situation. Also, such words have become very slang. Most people read them as such so you can excuse it with its formal definition but realistically, (in today's world), these terms are not used in that fashion. You speak with a small handful of people saying that they don't mind these labels, but it's a big-a**ed world out there. Not everyone is going to share those same views. The fact that I found these words offensive doesn't make me sensitive nor does it make me some college-crowd. I'm taking other's feelings into consideration just like you were with one of the members in this post about McDonalds.

Let me ask you, is it socially acceptable to call an obese person FAT? It's the truth isn't it? You read it's definition and there's nothing wrong in that. It's also not a respectful term.

At first I was thinking, Oh Bobby you just screwed yourself because you can't take offense about mcdonalds and then go and post that. But sitting here i'm trying to think of another way to post it? The only way would be to leave out anything describing the man other than angry which wouldn't get the point across. So other options might have been mentally ill man? A man who seemed to be on the low end of the iq scale. Or not posting it at all -- probably would have been the best choice but I'm guessing and hoping that when you posted that last thing you talking more about oh, when you are in CVS and there is a man in a wheelchair in front of you and your child asks why you should simply answer instead of shushing them. That has happened to me and I actually said something on the lines of this to the man, I'm sorry sir, I don't mean to be talking about you right in front of you but my children hadn't seen anybody using a wheelchair before, etc. (is that what you were trying to say Bobby?)

Side note: the guy was actually really receptive and showed them how he moved it and turned it. They never asked why his legs didn't work like theirs.

Most people are appreciative when other people ask questions about their disability oppose to people either staring or 'shushing' children who are questioning. They're part of society so why not ask. If they don't want to be bothered (as many of us don't at times) they will say so.

I agree with Sue here - the whole point of your final statement was to get a laugh. Nothing 'appropriate' about that.

Uggh...I'm worried that this is a topic that will go on forever if we let it...

Jes...telling someone to consider what it's like to hear their job described as a nightmare, and telling someone to banish two words from their language because you said so...they are very different things...

uggh again...I keep writing things and deleting them because I'm trying to wrap this thread up and everything I write seems like it's going to keep stringing this along...

Jes...if this post of mine offended you, then my future ones will probably offend you too. You should probably just avoid them.

I've heard your claims that retarded and handicapped are bad words. I'm not going to accept your claims, because I'd need to ignore too many people and things around me for those claims to be true. I don't have anything to gain from trying change your mind, however, so I'm not going to try. Really, I've spent enough time trying, and I don't have a lot of free time...

Later,
Bobby

quote:

Originally posted by BigBobby:
[qb] Hmmm...I'm not trying to be a pain, but have you thought about how a single parent might feel if they worked at McD's and read this post? I know plenty of parents that work there...

I dunno...please don't take this too seriously...I'm just trying to make a point... [/qb]

You're not making any sense to me. What you do in your own private world is up to you. I'm not asking you to change and I'm surely not asking you to ignore those around you by me insinuating better choice of words. Aren't we speaking the same language? All I've said was your post reply was offensive. What is the difference in what I've done and what I've just quoted you on? Am I not a member of this board?

I'm not trying to pick a bone with you here but really, I'm speaking of one topic only - not a multitude of everything else you've spewed out on. All of that holds no relevance to my point.

Also, sometimes we agree and sometimes we won't. That's life. It's not going to stop me from reading and replying to anyone's post so there's no need to imply that I should.

Lets just agree to disagree on this one and bring it back to: McDonalds.

quote:

Originally posted by Trasaris:
[qb] As much as it stinks, id be trash collector if I had to, to support my kids..[/qb]

Trash collector? They make good money.

Supposedly GREAT money! (which really they should for what they do)

quote:

Originally posted by miss jes:
[qb]You're not making any sense to me. What you do in your own private world is up to you. I'm not asking you to change and I'm surely not asking you to ignore those around you by me insinuating better choice of words. Aren't we speaking the same language? All I've said was your post reply was offensive. What is the difference in what I've done and what I've just quoted you on? Am I not a member of this board?

I'm not trying to pick a bone with you here but really, I'm speaking of one topic only - not a multitude of everything else you've spewed out on. All of that holds no relevance to my point.
[/qb]

Jes...I have no doubt that I haven't made any sense to you, but that's of no fault of mine. Everything that I "spewed" was carefully written to explain the difference between our opinions, yet I doubt you did more than skim over it before throwing up another page of "your point."

"Better choice of words"...really...if you're still saying things like that, you didn't even listen to anything I said. I've reiterated your point plenty: you think I used inappropriate words. I doubt you could reiterate mine, so here it is: *you* think that I used inappropriate words. I don't think you're right, there's a good amount of the world that agrees with me, and you're not the boss of us. Now let it go...

Yeah, you have a "right" to badger anyone in a public place that you want...those public places can become very uncomfortable that way...I don't think anyone wants this place to be uncomfortable. Jeez...would you please follow this with a response that doesn't insult me for not sharing your opinion?

Then really...just start ignoring me...nobody wants to read these exchanges, and I really have better ways to use my time...

Later,
Bobby

Ok Big Bobby I can see your point. Retard is describing something that has slowed down etc. It should be used. I guess what I tried to say is that I don't like my son using the word to describe anyone. No more than you would want your son saying it to describe his friends. Understand? You know I guess it's all just a matter of oppion. So what if my differs from yours. I guess it's just a respect thing going on(like MJ stated). Let's just let it go and know that mine, MJ and your oppions are different.

SPIRIT

You've taken an honest offense personally and twisted it into something ugly. I thought this board was based on respect? I'm sorry you've felt the need to waste your time on me.

Labels are degrading regardless on how you want to slice to your own benefit. I wouldn't use them in my private life nor would I bring them in here. Does that mean I'm excluding them from society? No. Am I undermining their belief system? No. I'm simply looking at them as an individual first - and not as some retard. No one's badgering here.

I have worked with countless people with disabilities and I can assure you, not ONE of them appreciate being called a retard. Where's your sensitivity?

It's an open forum. I will speak if I choose. There's nothing wrong with a healthy debate - life is full of oppositions. We just have to know how to handle them with tact.

I read all of this and I'm utterly surprised at Jes.

I have a nearly 50 year old cousin who was born with down's syndrome. Now, when I talk about her I obviously tell people that she has down's, but what if you don't know what their condition is but you know that they are obviously mentally retarded is some way or another?

The word retarded was never a bad word until it became a way to insult people. Just like the word Negro, Jew, and several cuss words that I cannot type in here because of their misuse in society.

I've been around down's syndrome all of my life because of my cousin, Tara. She and I played together as "children" even though she's only a couple years younger than my father. The word retarded was always acceptable in our household and hers, because you cannot always go up and ask someone what their actual medical diagnosis is. If I say someone was handicapped....there are about 1,000 different things one can think of. Matter of fact, finding myself disabled and handicapped these days adds me to that group.

The word retarded or words mentally retarded simply states that the person's disability wasn't necessarily physical, yet they were slow mentally.

Get off the soap boxes people. We all come from different upbringings. The major point here is, that each and every one of us knew exactly what was different about the man Bobby spoke about. I hate to see people trying to "re-train" others because they use a word that one or a group of people find socially unacceptable. For goodness sake, retarded is in the frigging dictionary!