"Special needs" has a more positive sound to it. Also, "retarded" has been used as slang in a negative fashion so many people don't see it as a kind word - regardless what the dictionary says. If you don't know what the condition is, isn't it just safer to say "special needs"?

Also, the original post was used to poke fun. That man was being degraded BECAUSE he's special needs.

I'm not here to re-train anyone. I find it offensive and I think I have a right to express that. I'm not the only person on this board that does.

You have every right to find it offensive. I didn't say that, I just said I was surprised at how strongly you have come out against a specific person rather than the idea of the word.

I found no offense in the words being used by Bobby, however I do see the point that he was a bit off color in his specific story.

So is it the word you are upset about or how it was used? See there is a difference there. His story even with the word "special needs" probably would have gotten the same reaction from you.

quote:

Originally posted by miss jes:
[qb]I have worked with countless people with disabilities and I can assure you, not ONE of them appreciate being called a retard. Where's your sensitivity?[/qb]

Whoa...find a single place where I used the word "retard"... that's very different than "retarded man."

Blindsky, I was referring to the terms being used and not Bigbobby himself. I also clarified that I knew he wasn't trying to be offensive but unintentionally did anyway. I think I was more surprised at his reaction towards me. I think he was out of line for suggesting I was wasting his time and to basically get lost.

What I find offensive is how he used that word to poke fun. Like you've said yourself, it was a bit off. Where was its relevance? He was more-less talking about this man's behaviour towards the manager - and threw in the retarded, as if it's suppose to make us want to pity the manager even more because of it. Now, speaking of a person's disability is different.

Also, retarded really is a dysfunction - a delay. So in that case, my son is delayed himself. It would boil me to no end if I ever heard anyone calling him retarded. He's a sweet boy with many strenths beyond his delays and they should be recognized first. And maybe that's my whole point, these people are only seen for their challenges and not so much what they ARE capable of doing. It's not nice. Again, the word 'handicap' stems from the word begger. We all have some form of 'handicaps' - do we consider ourselves beggers?

Generally speaking, it's fine that some people don't find it offensive but don't discount those who do. We're not talking behaviours here, we're talking people.

Bobby: As to your question, I don't find there's any difference between the two. They're both labels and irrelevant to your story.

I find it strangely amusing that you want to fight so hard for the world to see your son's disabilitys last and I'm fighting to get the world to see that I truly am disabled so that I can receive the help that I'm supposed to be entitled to.

Disabled doesn't make a person any less of a person true, but it does add to the myriad of things that makes each person unique.

I did not come in here to squabble. I do just want to make sure that every person sees things from all viewpoints. I find these topics very educational. I see each person's viewpoint and understand the reasoning behind it.

A mother's view of her child being excluded for his different abilities. A disabled person who looks normal and speaks normal wanting to be granted the same help to feed their family that the obviously disabled people have. A person that has been exposed to disability all his life feeling at home using different terms than are deemed by some in society as proper.

Each of our view points is what makes SFV a grand and wonderful place to come and learn. I agree if either of my children (as I even expect it with my son) have learning difficulty or physical disabilities...I would not want children or adults to feel that they are to be excluded or treated differently. However, I would not want my child with cerebral palsy or cancer to be stuck to the regimens of regular p.e. classes either. It's a fine line between dealing with society and dealing with illness and disability. I suppose it's much like the court systems we have today, there really is no way to please the whole of society.

Well I'm glad you're able to view this with an open-mind. Really, my whole intent wasn't to go off on a tangent and make myself come off like the better person here. It was to explain my point and why it could potentially be offensive to some of the readers here.

Labels do come in handy when requesting government funding; employment; housing; school designations; etc .. but that's all paperwork. I'm more less talking about day-to-day slang.

My son is delayed and yes he's getting school support and yes he may have a label of his own (in process) but I wouldn't hang that label over his head. Doing that is what sets him apart from everyone else. The purpose of inclusion isn't to take away those unique characteristics, it's to normalize and adapt situations as best we can. It isn't meant to ignore the fact that they have a condition but to work around it and allow them to feel just as human as everyone else. It's to provide support and educate people about the various conditions that helps people understand. Hopefully it'll make them rethink before using labels to describe a person as if that's all they have to offer. This isn't a government debate.

Individuals with NON-visible disabilities don't get this same disrespect as they walk down a street; eat at a restaurant; sit in a classroom.

I find it interesting that my point is viewed as a squabble; wasted time; a soap-box; badgering; and insulting.. because I was rightfully offended.

Anyway, I'm done.

quote:

Originally posted by Blindsky75:
[qb]I found no offense in the words being used by Bobby, however I do see the point that he was a bit off color in his specific story. [/qb]

Yeah, well...I never claimed to be on color Jeez...seeing what this has all become, it feels weird to go back and look at how it started.

The topic was how working in fast food could be a dream job. I remembered seeing a really stressed fast food manager recently, in an experience that I thought would be different to the readers of this forum. The story had a retarded man in it, but I didn't make fun of him; nobody in the story made fun of him. I left before the incident finished, but the man is probably to this day happy with however things turned out.

I dunno...I didn't even think twice that somebody would care that a retarded man was in my story. Honestly, there was another word in my story that was much less defendable...but really, the story also wouldn't have been notable if the guy *hadn't* been retarded (absolutely *not* "special needs"...people will think of me or my son harrassing the manager)...you had to feel for the poor manager...he was being as polite as he could, but he had no idea what to say. If a non-retarded person had been talking to him that way, he would have called the cops...but he was just trying to be as nice as he could...yet he wasn't going to give up that cheeseburger. My thoughts at that time really were that it couldn't be worth any amount of money to be in that situation...

How can it be wrong to give an honest account of something that happened, because it involved a retarded man? Is it because of what he did in the story? Man, I hate to tell you but I have a lot more stories like that. I grew up in a well off neighborhood, and most of my experience with disabilities before my marriage was pleasant. I had some friends with siblings born with problems...I had a girl in my elem. school in a wheelchair...a girl with down's syndrome in my high school...everyone was pretty kind and happy, however. Where I live now, you will see people with mental disabilities every day and about half will be pretty mean. I don't mean that as an assault on their character. If I had endured 20 years of adulthood with the little help they had, I would probably have gone through some terrible things that made me pretty angry. You know, an angry attitude probably helps them get by here, as the cheap areas to live coincidentally have high rates of crime.

Uggh...and you know, before this exchange I had never even *heard* of someone offended by the word "handicapped"...after all, it's on a billion excellent parking spaces...but I bet I'm going to offend someone with this next sentence. If you drive my streets it won't be hard to find a guy in a wheelchair or missing a limb...and half the time you'll find him with a bottle under his arm. Yeah...that's an estimation, but I bet data would show it to be a pretty accurate statement...and you know...I understand how many of them can turn to drinking and live out their lives like that...I really can...

But jeezus...does anybody think that I'm lying? Because the events I'm reporting don't fit the stereotype we have for "challenged" people? I swear...I'll make an mpg and drive around the block...I'l scan pics of lil Bobby at birthday parties where the celebration was for a classmate with an extreme disability...you know, little Bobby delivered his letter (required by the teacher) to his new middle school today, and in it he described himself as a 10yo boy with blue eyes and white skin. I *know* that we're going to get in trouble for that, but I let him put it in anyway. Jeezus...in every class he's had up to that point, he was the only one to fit that description...why *wouldn't* he describe himself that way? Trust me, however...some nosy person who misunderstood the civil rights movement to be about banning vocabulary is going to tell him it's wrong to notice that he's the only kid on his block with skin that color...

Man...I can't believe this went for days...I really did use the the most clear, medically accepted term I could in "retarded man." "Retard" is an insult derived from the term, as offensive slang often is, and I chose not to use that word on purpose. I can't believe that it's wrong for me to tell that story, however. Really, I think everyone is better off being reminded of (what I believe is) the most common situation for handicapped people in the world...

Ain't I a downer Anyway...I'm going to stick to the Mass forum now...It's much happier there, and I've spent enough time arguing politics on the Internet over the past 10 years to last the next 100...I'm ready to move on to real life contact...

Later,
Bobby

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BigBobby:
[qb]
How can it be wrong to give an honest account of something that happened, because it involved a retarded man? Is it because of what he did in the story? [/qb]

It's really not about who's in the story. It's about how he was presented. I took your word as a slang but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you weren't using it in that manner.

[qb] Uggh...and you know, before this exchange I had never even *heard* of someone offended by the word "handicapped"...after all, it's on a billion excellent parking spaces... [/qb]

That's because most people aren't aware where this word originates from. I wasn't so much offended by this word because of this reason but I thought I'd at least give you an insight as to what that word really meant.

[qb] But jeezus...does anybody think that I'm lying? Because the events I'm reporting don't fit the stereotype we have for "challenged" people? [/qb]

I don't think you're lying at all. Again, it has nothing to do with them as it was to do with your choice of words in describing them. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I still think there are more respectful ways of describing these individuals then words that are most commonly used as slang.

[qb] you know, little Bobby delivered his letter (required by the teacher) to his new middle school today, and in it he described himself as a 10yo boy with blue eyes and white skin. I *know* that we're going to get in trouble for that, but I let him put it in anyway. [/qb]

Why would you get in trouble with that? I don't see it as being wrong at all.

[qb] Trust me, however...some nosy person who misunderstood the civil rights movement to be about banning vocabulary is going to tell him it's wrong to notice that he's the only kid on his block with skin that color...[/qb]

Interesting that you'd think that. It would only be an issue if he was refering to another child's skin colour in a racial slur. Other than that, I don't see why they'd get upset.

[qb]Man...I can't believe this went for days...I really did use the the most clear, medically accepted term I could in "retarded man." [/qb]

Ok I understand. The terminology has been changed several times to keep up with modern language. People tend to turn these words into slang to the point that it becomes offensive to the designated person. I was also raised that "retarded", "stupid", "dumb", "idiot" were bad words. If you read them up in a dictionary, they seem like appropriate words.

Sorry Superwoman, I had to address this issue. Food for thought I suppose.

The floor is yours ..

:thanks:

wow I didnt mean to open up such a can of worms..........I also work w/people w/disabilities and know the challenges. But, I would rather take insults or arguments from someone w/disablities than someone who just wants to give me a hard time or is just plain mean.......and thats what I feel about that. And I take a lot from the people I work for but I can understand them and deal with it......ok, thanks for the input

Years ago, when my sister was diagnosed with a physical ailment that has affected her entire life, once told me that she prefers the term "physically/mentally challenged".

For myself, the term seems appropriate, for the fact that millions do take on the challenge (regardless of the fact that it was not by choice) on a daily basis, and meet that challenge in our society...and then some.

My 2 cents!

I actually work w/people with disabilties, and I would rather be yelled at by them instead of someone is is "normal", at least with them I can have more patience. And believe me, I have been yelled at and called names and even threatened by ysome of the clients I have had over the years, but that isnt always the case, and in the end it is rewarding knowing you are helping somone out that desperately needs it.On the other hand, you are not really helping someone out at McDonalds except to get them their burgers....so I would'nt exactly call that job rewarding (to to offend anyone working there...once again!)

Oops! I meant "not to offend anyone working there" !!

Wow what an angry thread. I hate that I missed it. I'm Irish dontcha know and just love a good brawl.

Sorry, as a past McDonald's employee I felt I had to jump in on this one. Yes it was a job of desperation as most of them have been. The dream job of being Mr. Vin Diesel's personal assistant has yet to open so I do as I must until that fateful day.
I will say I did not feel as offended by the original post as some others, I think it was light-hearted and most people who have or are currently working at one of the gazillion fast food joints would agree that most of their fellow co-workers most resemble Beavis or Butthead. I had the pleasure of working with Lurch from the Adam's family and Gunnery Sergeant Hartman myself.
Ah those were good times. I sometimes think of going back just for the pure comedy relief of it. You can have so much fun messing with people. I have some wonderful stories to tell the grandkids someday.
I mean don't we all feel over-qualified and under-paid for our jobs no matter what they are.

As far as the whole maybe bad choice of words lemme say I come from a family full of "special in the short bus kind of way", people. Wheelchairs, speech issues, insanity, MS, MD,ADD, aixelsyd,you name it we got a branch of it somewhere. Yours truly included, but I wear it as a badge of honor. Anyway my point was only that before you get upset reading any kind of post take a moment to consider the source. There are many different degrees of acceptable terms depending on where you live in the world. There are some words that in your corner of the world may be viewed as highly offensive, but perfectly acceptable in other parts. Let's just throw out African American, now talk amoungst yourselves on that one.
-three days later...-

Considering the other posts I have read of Bobby's and now having had met him I do not feel it was done to offend but to describe the situation as he saw it. Personally I think the person at the counter was a Jackbutt for not just giving the guy what he wanted in the first place especially if he may have had "issues" but... I've run out of change so when I get another couple of pennies I'll comment more another day for another reason.

So kids lets all kiss and make-up. (make-up not feel up, you dirty minded people)
Feel the love people, feel the love.

Souctmoms,

I see we will be waiting in line for the Vin job. I'm going for the personal nipple tweaker, sunblock rubber, etc. I do better with hands on LMAO. hey JayLo has her own nipple tweaker I figured Vin would need one as well L

Good luck on the job opening. I've been waiting since fast and furious came out and I discovered this Sweet looking man! ***dreamy look***. Vin fan. I have to admit that I would take offers from Nichoas Cage, Adam Sandler or Johnny Depp in the same areas as well.

SPIRIT