I'm sure I can relate to some of this as well. I've read up on some of the other postings in here. In my situation, I think it's a genetic thing [my dad is bi-polar, among many other things], mixed up with all of the environmental influences I've been through. I try not to label myself as depressed though .. Maybe I'm in denial?

I think I've created such a safe routine in my [our] everyday life, I'm not so much up to anything above and beyond. This usually happens in waves too. Sometimes I'm full of energy and rearing to go. Other times I find myself so irritable and too content in doing just about nothing. The smallest tasks appear so grand [loading the dishwasher, cooking]. I think it's an entitlement at times, to hang low key, considering that my job and raising a 4 year old is quite demanding and stressful. But how much of this is an excuse?

Oddly enough, I can't remember the last time I cried. Even when I want to, I can't. Someone once said to me [as a joke] that I had Detatchment Disorder. Even though I took it as a joke, I often wonder, how much of it was the truth? [Subliminal message << I'm reading between the lines].

I'm generally a happy-go-lucky person on the surface. In fact, people who learn about my history are often surprised, as I don't appear like I've lived a hard life. But when I hear someone else's hardship during general conversations, I get this heavy sensation dwelling over my chest - I can't shake it. It sure sets my mood for the next hour or so.

I've thought about therapy as well. But taking the time out on such a small window of opportunity - it just gives me another thing to procrastinate over. So here I am - writing over 100 postings already. What's a woman got to do?

jes

I completely understand. There are days that I walk through the door after work and think, uhhh how in the world did my house get to be the local landfill? And then I realize that for days I have put off doing the dishes or laundry because its just seems so monumental and overwhelming.

I am a huge proponent of therapy. It's like having a best friend who does nothing but listen to you vent. Granted, a best friend who gets PAID to do it, but still For me anyway, it is so therapeutic to be able to just get it all out of my system. Talk and talk and talk-and I usually can end up talking through a lot of the problems I have and find my own solutions. Like speaking things out loud to an impartial third party just makes things so much clearer in my mind.

Not much point to my response I guess except just to tell you I feel you! I think we all experience it in some form. Nothing wrong with seeking some help.

I agree with you. The thing that grates my skin though, is the therapist's approach. I've studied a bit of counselling myself, so I'm familiar with the "lingo" they all use: the paraphrasing, the "empathy", the questioning ..
It drives me nuts because it doesn't seem sincere. It really puts a marked boundary between them and us. When I need to vent, I don't need someone paraphrasing EVERYTHING I'm saying - I UNDERSTAND!! lol The day I signed up here, just before I found this site, I called a crisis line to vent. I needed anything/anyone to listen. The woman on the other end was friendly and she gave me a few contact numbers for the situation I was at - but dang - she kept paraphrasing everything - empathetically?? Ya sure. It wasn't what I needed to hear.

I'm glad it's working for you. I suppose we all have our own niche!

Ps: your kid is adorable.

jes

Jes-thanks! I happen to think he's the most adorable thing I've ever seen, but I am a bit biased

I hear ya on the paraphrasing thing. I guess when I go to therapy I'm not looking for a solution as much as just the opportunity to vent. Venting usually helps me come up with a solution

Counselors bug me. I have spent five years in and out of counseling. Somewhere along the line one person said that I had bipolar disorder, I took some meds for a while that made me even MORE nuts, and then another therapist said that may have been a misdiagnosis and i was just dealing with all the crud. Well that makes sense. But don't tell anybody involved in my custody battle that, nosiree.... once you've been labeled "nuts" yer nuts for life. Just ask my daughter's former school staff. They never took what I had to say seriously regarding my daughter, and would not keep me informed about some things her dad was doing, trying to get access to her, etc. because they felt that I needed to just "let it go". I informed them that their job was to TEACH my child, not try to be our social worker, and that we already HAD one of those. The woman, despite the fact that I was calmly sitting at her desk, hands folded in my lap, speaking in a low conversational tone (wasn't even gritting my teeth!) said "you're getting manic", having heard of the condition from my beloved exhusband. She kept speaking platitudes, but my ears quit listening at that point.

Counselors bug me because they always want to "label" me, and this usually involves drugs that I can't afford, and I usually can't afford the counseling anyways. In fact, recently because I've been fighting depression, I even went in search of the "drugs" for short term, because I knew I was facing some pretty hefty stuff having to do with my daughter having unsupervised, unrestricted time with her abuser (her dad). So, the fact that I couldn't do anything to keep my kid safe was kicking my butt. Well it still is, but so far I've been unable to find healthcare coverage for this type of care unless I want to flat out say "i'm nuts, I'm suicidal, I'm depressed" and go the emergency room route, and thus further damage my chances in court. Plus it freaked my family out before and I won't do that again. While I am NOT suicidal, there are days often where I pray that God will just take me and my daughter to heaven NOW, because I'm REALLY tired of dealing with all this crap on Earth. Then I turn around and say that I'm sorry, because the heart of depression is that you start thinking inwardly and the way OUT of depression is to think outside yourself. It's not all about ME. That sucks, but that's the way out of depression. At least for me anyways. I am heavily involved in my church, and it is a pleasure most of the time, but at times it's a job, and I am thankful for it- those responsibilities give me a reason to keep going when the reasons that used to rest in my kid are no longer there. I've kept it "together" for my kid for so long so that I could work to keep her safe, and now that reason is gone. So when she's gone to her dad's, I need a reason to keep keeping it "together", although I do allow myself the time when she's gone, to slide down the door and sob myself to sleep on the kitchen floor from time to time. Does it feel better? Not always, but the emotion needs a release, and if I don't let it out then, I will let it out when my kid is with me, which is bad. And the emotion is so pent up, a mix of anger, resentment, deep sadness, heartbroken RAGE... that I better darn well let it out when my kid is gone. I beat the snot out of my front door on a regular basis.

I have found one counselor that I seem to mesh well with, and I think she doesn't think I'm nuts, which is a good sign. She is counseling my kid. Inevitably, my ex husband will become involved in the counseling as well, so my time as a "non-nuts" person in her estimation may be limited. Who knows? She is a Christian, I am a Christian... it may all come out in the wash. In the meantime, God is working on making me forgive that guy... which is REALLY hard, but hating him is only killing me. And ruining my relationshhip with my kid.

So I attend AA meetings with a friend from church, even though I wouldn't exactly call myself an addict. I can related to the people there though, and they're just REAL. So I say that prayer, that serenity prayer, and I really MEAN it, because it is so relevant right now:

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I can't change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

I didn't think counsellors were qualified to give such diagnosis. What did your doctor say about all this? It's scary stuff to be walking into, blind-eyed.

Counsellors' job is to listen and give insight to the situation at hand; guide you into solving your own problems; a resource guide; nothing more, nothing less.

Why don't the teachers take you seriously? It's really not in their job description to mediate in a personal family matter. Unless the safety of any kind was at risk for the child involved. I work in a school myself. I know it's best to give the benefit of the doubt rather than making any form of assumptions.

I can see how difficult this has all been for you. Perhaps when you approached the teacher, you radiated some hefty vibe that she picked up on. Regardless, she had no right to call you manic. She's not qualified to do so. I would of reported her for that.

Regarding "her abuser", do you have proof that your ex has been abusing your daughter? Can you get proof? Is your daughter old enough to testify? How does she feel about visiting dad? Children do have rights too. Look into that.

I commend you for the effort you're putting into all this mess: going to counselling; taking anti-depressants; going to AA meetings; releasing pent-up emotions appropriately [in the absence of your child]; continuing in your day-to-day responsibilities; going to church; and of course, coming here to vent just like the rest of us. It's very theraputic and best of all, free! Give yourself credit where it's earned. It's not an easy road for anyone.

There's absolutely nothing wrong in taking anti-depressants when needed. It takes courage to admit in needing them - even for short-term. It's no one's business whether or not you're taking them.

Most importantly,
NEVER ALLOW YOUR EX TO GET INVOLVED IN YOUR COUNSELLING SESSIONS. USING YOUR DAUGHTER AS REASON IS JUST AN EXCUSE. IF HE FEELS LIKE HE NEEDS COUNSELLING, THEN HE NEEDS TO FIND HIS OWN. THEN, WHEN HE'S READY TO INVITE YOUR DAUGHTER INTO HIS SESSIONS, IT CAN BE ARRANGED THEN. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT! IF HE GETS INVOLVED, FIND A NEW COUNSELLOR ... REALLY.

Well best of luck. I hope you'll return and vent some more. It's helped me and many of us here.

Jes

PS: This was written by another member here. It's valuable information. It's long but well worth the read..

How to do it:
1. Put yourself and you kids in counseling. Make sure your counselor is a certified clinical counselor. Anybody else is a waste of time with this kind of guy.
2. Make sure your kids know the above rule, but realize they are just kids and he's an adult that's going to try to trick them. So, you're going to have to just give them reminders and practice with them. It takes gentle training, not discipline.
3. Learn your rights. For instance, you have equal right to protection. You have the right to privacy. Your kids are violating your right to privacy whenever they talk about you at dad's. Try to stress the Constitution to them. Teach them the Constitution so they know their rights, too.
4. Don't call him. Ever. I don't care what it is, you can handle it. The kids are sick and they are with dad. Fine. He can call the doctor. He's their father, make him take responsibility. Stay out of it. Don't do any vicarious parenting. LEAVE HIM ALONE.
5. NEVER EVER talk to his girlfriend. She has no authority here. When you deal with her, you give her your authority. Cut it out. And, you make her a witness to any of the ex's games. Remember, she's his puppet. Stay very, very away from her.
6. If you ever see your ex face to face, keep a deadpan face and don't say a single word. Even better is ignore him like he's not in the room, don't even look in his direction.
7. Get Caller ID. If it's him, don't answer. His next game will be to call you from another location, use a calling card, block his number. So, set your phone so that you can't receive calls from blocked numbers, and only answer calls from people you know. If it's him, hang up.
8. TURN OFF OR THROW OUT your answering machine. You won't believe what those things can tell him. Mine even 'gave him permission to go through my mailbox'.
9. Take down your mailbox and get a PO Box. He's going through your mail whether you know about it or not.
10. Lock your car at night. He's going through it.
11. Guard your personal phone book and checkbook register. He wants those so he can find out who you know and what you're doing.
12. Make a habit of checking your rearview mirror often. If he's not following you, he's got somebody else doing it. Or, he could just be using the kids to give him info.
13. Drop all contact with mutual friends.
14. Make sure your family follows the NO INFO rule. If they can't, cut them off. You and your children are not safe as long as he's getting information.
15. If he knows your email address, change it.
16. If he knows your cell phone number, change it.
17. If you can afford it, do this: Give your kids a separate line so that he can call them anytime he likes. My Ex never calls the kids on THEIR line.
18. Don't talk about your ex with your friends, family, anybody. He's dead. DEAD. And, if you're talking about him, it will get back to him and he will KNOW HE LIVES.
19. I also bought a house positioned so that he can't even see if a light is on. It drives him NUTS. Plus, I built a fence and a gate just for him. The thing here is, he can't get info about me by driving past my house. He doesn't know when I'm home or who might be here. Total agony. It did no good to move away, though, he just bought a new house near me.
20. Change your whole routine so that he can't run into you. At kids' stuff at school, have a support group sit near or with you, and try to be as invisible as possible. If there are backstage duties, volunteer. If they are in a play, skip opening night if you want to avoid him. If he can see you, he feels power. So, avoid him.
21. Keep a log of everything. EVERYTHING. If it's not in writing, it never happened.
22. Be self-sufficient. You don't need him because of what he brings with him.
23. Try to stay out of court. In divorce, you want to be the plaintiff because it gives you two times before a jury if it goes to court. But, when you're the ex-wife (demon who turns kids against dad) you play a different game. It's called 'Countersue the Daylights Out of Him If He Touches You'. You see, that's what he's going to do if you bring a legitimate claim against him. And, you can't get rid of them. It goes on FOREVER AND EVER until he gets tired of it, and HE WON'T GET TIRED OF IT.
24. Don't worry about the kids. The less worrying the better for the kids. Keep them in counseling. Mine went for three years, and go back whenever is needed. Just keep taking them for as long as you can. Most counselors have a sliding scale for fees.
25. If he stops paying child support, keep a record of it. If he stops paying anything he's supposed to pay, keep a record of it. Don't say a word. It drives him NUTS. And, it's your firey counterclaim if he files anything against you. Keep this in mind: Some of his antics, like not paying child support, are just to bait you into court so he can countersue with what a total mental mess you are and he should have the kids. Skip it. Turn the tables and make his game the bait that could destroy him in court should he try something. You'll look pretty dang good to the judge. Sometimes, though, you may have to go after the child support, but just don't do it without being prepared for the huge counterclaims awaiting you. It doesn't matter that he's lying. Of course, consult your attorney. Attorneys like to make money, though, so keep that in mind, too. Weigh your options carefully. And, remember, your kids can also sue for back child support when they are adults. He doesn't get off the hook so easily.
26. If you need a restraining order, get it.
27. If he's just a psychological terror machine, your life will belong to you once he is truly CUT OFF.
28. If he sends you a letter, don't respond, of course. If a response is absolutely needed, get your attorney to do it.
29. Learn everything you can about women's power, women's rights, etc. Remember, he's put you down for a long time so that you are controlled. Get out of that mindset. And, get new thoughts in your head.
30. He's lying to the kids. He's trying to get them to defend you so he can get information about you. You do not care what the lies are. Your kids should know that he's lying to get information. Train them gently and persistently to respect your privacy.


REMEMBER: These guys can only operate if they have information about you. If they don't know anything, then they have nothing to use. They have to know something in order to manipulate and control. It's what fuels their games. Without it, they're dead. Cut off all communication. Hide all of your buttons -- no matter what he does, don't react.

He WILL be desperately trying to contact you and will be pushing ALL known buttons and try to find new ones. He will go through EVERYTHING in his bag of tricks. DO NOT REACT. If he yells at the kids, tell their counselor. Oh, and DO NOT MENTION THE COUNSELING TO HIM. He will use it to manipulate and control. If he gets involved, find a new counselor.

K, let me scroll up and address what I can:

I have been keeping a journal on everything my kid says and does, everything that the Parenting Class personnel did (lied to me and allowed my child to be unsupervised with this guy).

My child has been disclosing to counselors, CPS and police since age 2. However she can't remember a whole lot about the abuse NOW (she sure acts it out quite readily, tho)and it's been this way since she started school.

She has had supervised visits for... 4 years (albeit, I believe the supervisor was biased, influenced by him. And who can blame them... all their time was quality family time... the perfect opportunity to gain their sympathy, gain my daughter's affection, and show what a good, misunderstood father he is and how nuts I am).

I have had two restraining orders on him in the past five years, and the courts would not uphold another one since he hasn't actually hit me or tried to harm me in a while. The restraining orders I tried to file against his parents was also thrown out of court- during a time when visits first started, visits were conducted at our respective parents' house, with our respective parents' as cosupervisors. He became violent, punched a wall. When I attempted to leave their home, the parents blocked the doorway and I had to shove my way thru w my 3 yr old daughter to get out. The police owuld not come. The courts said that they didn't actually hit me, so... no restraining order.

I have a P.O. Box.

I have no mutual friends... they quickly picked sides.

He is influencing my daughter and saying bad things about me. My daughter has turned into a lying, manipulative little darling and I don't know when she is teling the truth, telling me stuff that he said, or saying stuff because she thinks she's making me happy. What's she's actually doing is making me NUTS. I cannot do a thing about what he is doing and/or teling her at visitation now because the courts have awarded him unsupervised visitation and the opnion of the courts is that they seem to be siding with HIS side of the story. That goes for CPS and the police too, thanks to my daughter's wonderful statement at the last interview "No, everything my mom said was all a lie. She made me say it. Mom says Dad is a pervert." End of interview. And I get reamed out by the detective. She neglected to TELL the detective that yes, i did say her dad was a pervert... on the phone late at night to a friend, venting, when she was SUPPOSED to be ASLEEP. But it doesn't matter.

As far as him getting involved with counseling, yes the old counselor (public health) watned to involve him in counseling. She also had a few other kooky ideas and claimed that I would not let my daughter get past the abuse (would love to.. if I knew it wasn't presently happening. That would be great. when's the tickets to Disneyworld?) and that I have an unstable home- ya... I spend my entire live revolving around how to protect my kid in a system that won't frickin LISTEN TO ME! HECK YA!

Anyways, I got rid of that counselor. they kept changing counselors everytime I requested records or mentioned court, and suddenly that counselor got transferred. I quit that place and it took some doing with the health insurance, but i got a private counselor this time that isn't going to go anywhere. She also testifies in court, but it will cost me dearly.

That leads to the next subject. Attorneys? Have had 2 of them in 5 years. They kinda don't stick around if you can't pay them. Legal aid here is a joke. Pro bono attorneys? That's a good one. Tell me another one. The last attorney I had recently I still owe about $2400 and I'm not confident that she's going to be someone I can count on. In fact, she has withdrawn from the case, but I'm "more than welcome to call for legal advice at $200 an hour". Ya... RIGHT.

I am POOR. I have been poor for a long time. And the "nuts" accusations? Not far off. I lost my marbles when I was with that guy. The ER made the diagnosis of bipolar disorder, and I got on some meds temporarily. Then for a year after I was on meds, and saw a psychiatrist and a counselor. After a while I kept forgetting to take the meds (didn't like them much anyways)and the doc said that I wasn't getting a thereaputic dosage anyways, and I said I wanted to stop taking them anyways at that point because it was running up a bill I couldn't afford- story of my life. bills I can't afford.

Then later, the counselor I was seeing just this last year suggested taht perhaps bipolar disorder was an incorrect diagnosis because I had been functioning pretty well for a few years now with no meds and no major breakdowns. He was set to start an appointment with a psychiatrist (if I remember right, this counselor had a bachelor's in something, who knows what. I was just trying to deal with my daughter's abuse) and then... hey, guess what... I ran out of money.

As far as the checkbook register, phone n all that... we've been divorced for five years now. Taht stuff was all taken care of. If he wants to call, well, I've dealt with taht too, and documented, even recorded the phone call as I said "Hey, I know it's you, _____ (his name), and the audible click after much silence". This happened several times. Would the police do anything? Nope.

Scrolling up.

As far as the child support, also a moot point. The state Support Enforcement was taking it out of his check. He recently made a move to make it so that he would send in the check manually from his checking account, vying for more control. i could give a rip. I'd gladly give up the child support if he'd just go away, and have told the state this, but because my daughter has medical coupons, they have to do the child support. I let them handle it, although it kind of bugged me that they let him take that control so easily when before they made sure to have it deducted from his paycheck.

As far as how I act around him... ya... I don't want to be buddies w his gf. She tries to make conversation, I have been civil and that's it. I know I can't hold a conversation for long without getting ticked, so I keep conversation to a minimum. I get doctor's notes for any conditions my kid has and document that I have given them a copy. I have recorded phone conversations that my kid has had with her dad in which she said "Daddy you did bad touching to me" and he said "no I didn't, that's not true". But it was inadmissable in court because he did not know he was being taped. Sigh....

It's all about money. He's got the hotshot attorney and the money, and I don't. I have gone as far as I can through the system to protect my kid without losing her. The court seems to be ofthe opiniion that I'm adversely affecting her and "disparaging the other parent" in her presence ( not me, but my mom did it plenty when she was alive). I know that when the subject of abuse was brought up by my daughter we discussed it, but I did not suggest anything. And I have trained my daughter how to protect herself, and kept her in assertiveness and sexual awareness and *** abuse counseling as long as I can. This is paid for by the state.

The only drawback is that if he gets her medical records, like he is asking for, then he will have access to everything she says, and thus influence her when he has her, threaten her, etc. and thus stops the disclosures.

What I am is old, sick, and tired. I have wasted the majority of my daughter's tender years FIGHTING. And being mad. And it's such a waste. I am worse off than when I started and a whole lot broker, and my kid loves him to pieces.

So, for her sake, and so that I won't lose my kid in court, I am trying to "get along" , at least in appearance, which totally sucks because it basically means I have to LIE to my kid about the abuse and act like it's an ok place to be.

If I put her in sexual abuse kids groups that teach her what is good touchinga nd bad touching and how to protect herself, he is going to object, having had access to her records, and thereby prevent her from getting the protection she needs, and I won't be able to do anything about it.

It's hard to believe all this, when the SAME JUDGE, five years ago, ordered a guardian ad litem, and ordered supervised visitation, and the guardian ad litem recommended anger management counseling for him, a psychosexual evaluation, and a lie detector test. None of which he did, but he did complete the year's worth of parenting classes (more opportunities to look like a good dad. yippy.)

Scrolled up.

The teacher that called me manic... was the principal. And it was a small town school, self governed (I know, I tried reporting them for not cracking down on the lice epidemic there. I worked there). I did report her. they're doing nothing. I have changed schools since, due to the fact that I no longer work there and have no need to drive to a different school district. The NEW school district is also fun, in that they will not allow me to volunteer in my daughter's second grade classroom, nor do they allow any parents in the classroom. That BUGS me. But I have enough battles already, and quite frankly I'm not up to par to deal with a bunch of kids daily right now anyways.

Letters from him, I don't respond to, but he sends all of his crap thru his attorney now, who is cut from the same cloth, lots of threats veiled in legal jargon and he's a bulldog that never shuts up.

As far as what my kid tells me, I am to the point now where I pick up the phone. She can call the counselor, she can call the police. But she has to tell them the same thing she told me, or I don't wanna hear it. She has lied ot me SO much, it's unreal.

I don't react to anything he does in his presence, or in court, or in front of my kid. I wait till everybody is gone and i beat the crap out of my front door. And when baseball season is in, I go to the batting cages and hit the softball back up into the hole it comes out of that little machine at.

As far as court, it has always been at his instigation, since he has started this new motion to try to get unsupervised visits. I felt more comfortable that way, because I am relying on legal advice from legal aid, so basically I'm on my own. So I sit and wait for more legal papers in the mail. Whoopee.

The flip side of this, which I no longer know if it's a good thing or not (kind of losing my desire to pursue it now that I know it was for the wrong reasons) is that I am 2/3 of the way done with my Associates as a paralegal. I half considered going the whole route and going thru this Clerk's program in the state of WA and going for the bar exam. I started all this so that I could learn the courts better and/or make buckets of money (ROFL) in which to better protect my kid. I kept seeing the trend in the law to dick kids over and leave abusees out to dry, while letting abuser re-offend, and I thought that I might want to work in family law, and/or go into the guardian ad litem program. I also so where poor people get dicked in the legal system (please pardon my language. it's very hard to bheave right now. I will get Christianly again in a moment. My apologies). If you are criminally charged, you have a right to legal counsel, but people get reamed in civil court and divorce court daily. The money runs the courts. The money buys the judge. It's not that the judges are corrupt (THAT is a whole nother post... I also would like to see some accountability in our judicial branch, like the other branches have so that they can't just wave their magical judicial wand and "create" law after the people have already had their vote- prime example... 2004 Washington voting primaries... a total joke), it's just that those that can afford legal counsel win. How often do low income perfectly good parents come out getting screwed? I talk to dozens of them daily. And it ticks me off. I'm getting tired of it. So, Mom told me once that I can sit there and b---tch, or I can do something about it... her words exactly. Always seems like I'm biting off more than i can chew though, and I always got fires to put out and battles to fight. Life is constant drama and it's getting old, fast. I'M getting old, fast.

I want to go on roadtrips with my kid to the mountains and go innertubing and spend time with her not scared about time constrains or be able to deal with her without having tob e on guard about everything I say, or cringe everytime she says something like "I saw naked magazines and a naked movie at Daddy's today and he said that those kind of movies are only ok for kids to watch when an adult is with them, and he said he was with me to supervise, so it was ok. But I read the label, Mommy, and it said for people 18 and over ONLY, and it had people kissing all over each other bodies and their were naked on their peepees and it looked wierd and..." and I get to wonder what the heck is going on over there... and I get to deal with her little lying habit, and I get to hand her the phone and say "call the counselor" and she gives me a dirty look because she can't tell me this stuff and get to stay up later at bedtime and get lots of snuggly attention from Mommy from it any more. Sigh... And she scowls at me and runs off and stomps and says taht I'm no fair and Daddy loves her better than I do and that he's a big liar, and she's not lying, and lbah blah blah...

Scrolled up again. Didn't mean to write a novel. This crap just keeps coming out again adn again and again, never resolved... five years. Stress..


As far as counseling for me. My church has a pastor husband and wife that counsel me now. Doesn't cost me anything. They pray with me. They email, we talk on the phone often. It's how I've been dealing with all of this so far, and through my support system at my church too. We bear each others' burdens.

The hard part is that the "world", so to speak, says all that "protect yourself and your kid at all costs" thing, which is common sense, yes, but alot of it just keeps stirring up anger and fear and doesn't really solve anything. I know, I been in that system for five years now. counselors, support groups, parenting groups, kid's counselors, domestic violence groups, crisis clinics, sexual assault clinics.. you name it. And then the church, and the Bible and all that... doesn't say not to protect us, but it says that God will, and to not hate. And to forgive, and to pray for my enemies and pray that they have blessings. And that part just splits my mind right in half. And I know in my heart, that even if it's for my sake, I have to stop hating this man, because it's manifesting itself out toward my kid. she knows it. She's smart. I get angry. Am angry alllllll the time. And when she says things that like she loves him and starts bouncing off the walls when it's time fo rhim to pick her up... it hurts me badly and she can see this, even if I try to hide it. So I have to heal from this somehow, and I"m not sure how to do that, because it's been this open, festering wound that's constantly being ripped open again and again and again for five years.

[.....sigh]

Regardless on how far women have come in today's society - it's still a man's world. Generally speaking, we are guilty until proven innocent << money hungry - at all costs. Nevermind the code of ethics.

I think you're doing all you can do. Keep your foot firmly on the ground and don't let others convince you into lying. Your daughter needs you. Don't do or say anything that could hinder your relationship with her in any way. If law isn't going to listen to you, eventually your daughter will. She'll thank you for it later. You'll see.

You are not here to please others. Protect yourselves, even if you have to play the game their way. Continue in sending your daughter to therapy re: sexual assault; assertiveness; etc. Although she may be lying to you now, you know she's under your ex's influence. He's in control and he's guiding her into all of this. One day she'll be comfortable - and old enough - to express her experiences to the right ear at hand who will legally help you both. All you can do for now is reassure her what her rights are. See if you can put a copy of it on the fridge so she can see it. Review it before she visits "dad". Tell her if she's uncomfortable in what she's witnessing at her dad's, but doesn't want to call you - for whatever reason.. fear? - to go to bed. Calling 911 is always an option for her, if need be.

Is your ex trying to fight for sole custody? I'm under the understanding that he already has unsupervised visitations. What more is he asking for? Meaning, why are you still going to court for trial?

I can't say much about the "school" scenerio. It was good that you changed. If there's any truth in that, help yourself first. If not, then don't let words like that get the better of you.

Congrats on your schooling. I strongly believe that we are all given only that of what we can handle. With your experience, you'd make a heck of an advocator for someone undergoing the same experiences. You just need to learn what the loopholes are. You need to learn how to get ahead in their game - what makes them tic. Remember though, in order to be able to help others, you need to help yourself first. You don't want to personalize every one else's experiences in the process. You'll run into depression for sure. Use your experiences as a tool but set yourself apart from their's. Best of luck with this and don't give up.

Sometimes we need to take a step back and re-asses our situation. For example, why do you think everyone around you is working against you? Family, friends, paraprofessionals ... What do they all have in common? What is the one trigger that you're sending off that puts them all in the same boat? I understand where you're coming from exactly. I have seen it first-hand myself. All I'm saying, maybe you need to adjust your approach in all this. Is there a book in the library you can read up on, in how to best deal with this sort of situation? I'm not sure. But if no one is listening to you, change tactic. Find a better method that works.

You're right about the judicial system. It is really meant to protect the guilty not the victims.

Also, getting angry at your daughter is only giving her fuel to turn against you. Remember, she's confused and scared. She'll side to whom ever appears to have more strength - your ex - being that the system tends to favour him over you. Do whatever it is to keep your mind mentally fit. I really liked your approach in getting your daughter to tell her counsellor what she was telling you. Keep doing that. Eventually, she'll understand why, and make that call.

Here I am rambling on. I hope this helps at least a little.

My sister is going through all this herself. She had to testify against her ex-abuser several times, and both times the case was aquitted. Somewhere along the lines, someone didn't do their job properly, so the judge threw it out the window. She's basically given up on the courts and isn't even attending her third trial.

jes

He isn't going for sole custody yet, but his goal is to do joint custody.

I dunno... I seriously want to get together with anyone I can, organize and speak as one voice to legislature and the courts to get this problem fixed:

1. Children need to be protected.
2. CPS needs to do their job.
3. Laws are written for the abuser, not the victim. This needs fixed. For instance, WA state law says basically there are 8 points, an "Allen" test, the biggest point being physical evidence of abuse. Do you KNOW what kind of abuse would have to happen to leave physical evidence? Particularily sexual abuse. Hey, can anybody say painful, violent anal or vaginal penetration? Ya, gotta love our law.
4. Legal representation for poor people, not just some token attempt at it. Legal representation for poor people in FAMILY LAW, not just criminal.

5. Accountability for crappy lawyers, crappy guardian ad litems, and judges that make decisions like they're on crack.

6. A check and balance system for the judicial branch as well: Prime example... how do we change law? Take it to court! Case law supercedes law voted in. There's something WRONG with this. Who runs this country anyway?

Anyway, these are the things I want to see fixed, and I'm not sure how to go about it, but learning about law seemed to be the first step, and I know I probly won't get all of those done, but advocating for children seemed like a thing I could do, even after my daughter leaves home. I figured if i couldn't fix the situation for her, than at least I could work on it, and then maybe I wouldn't hear so many stories like I'm reading on these boards of kids being left with abusive parents because parents have rights or something. Sigh...

I DO appreciate your levelheadedness in your post. I am more emotional than most folks, being a musician/artist type (and I'm going in LAW? ROFL), so to me everything is pretty much cut and dried, I call it the way I see it, and if a guy is a scum sucking.. ok, enough of that. anyways, I have ah ard time accepting "wrong", and pretending that it's "right". And am also stubborn as all get out, too.

You are right in that I need to figure out a way to fix me first, and I do see that I personalize everybody else's experience seeing it mirror my own. That's why I get so mad about it when I hear it. I'd like to go kick every *** abuser's butt in the country! Or lock them all up in the same room and let them do what they will to each other.

Your sister needs to attend her trial, even if it's a fruitless effort. If she gives up, her credibility is shot if he starts his crap again. Even if she shows up in court and says "hey, I've given up on the courts, but I'm here because it's my day in court and I'm never going to shut up about this and you need to do something about it", well then so be it. I suspect that's what I'll be doing at our next hearing, after receiving the guardian ad litem report that looks VERY bad for me. I'm filing a complaint against the commissioner (stand-in judge) that judged my case because she disregarded two letters from counselors stating numerous disclosures (without me present) of sexual abuse by the father, and also filing a complaint against the guardian ad litem because she interviewed the child in the presence of the father, expecting her to disclose things in front of the father- needless to say she gave daddy a glowing report. Of course.
I'm filing a complaint against CPS and their just idiotic conduct, and putting my case in with the others in the law suit in January against CPS that is statewide, and I may start writing legislature again.

I think I will hold off on the newspapers unless I lose custody. It could too easily be made to look like that I'm nuts, with my past visits to the shrinks during the breakdown of my marriage. That, and religious folk aren't considered very good people these days, despite the fact that our country is made up of 80% of them.

But anyways, ya... I appreciate your levelheaded advice. I need a kick in the butt from time to time and pointed back in the direction I was going, because I get off track alot.

Child's Bill of Rights, posted at kid-level height on inside of front door, so all can see as they are leaving the house:

*************************************

YOUR RIGHTS AS A CHILD:

You have rights according to the Constitution, the laws of our country and our state.
Remember these rights:

YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO:

1. Be safe. No one should make you feel threatened or unsafe. If you feel unsafe, call 911.
Don’t wait, do it as soon as you feel unsafe.
2. Have food when you are hungry. This is a law that parents and caregivers have to give
you food when you are hungry, and are not allowed by law to let you starve. If food is not
being given to you, call 911.
3. Wear your clothes and have privacy. No one should ask you to take your clothes off in
their presence, or to see you naked or partly naked, or to make you keep a door open
while you are undressing or using the bathroom.
4. Not hug or touch someone that you don’t want to. No one should make you hug or
touch them in any way if you don’t want to. If this happens and you feel unsafe, call 911.
5. Not be hugged or touched if you don’t want to. No one should invade your personal
space, or hug or touch you in any way if you tell them you don’t want to. If this happens
and you feel unsafe, call 911.
6. Say and think how you want to. This does not apply to doing things that are considered
“being bad”, like things you are not allowed to do in school or at Mom’s house, such as
cussing, or being disruptive or disrespectful, yelling inside, breaking things, etc.. You
can express your opinions, and you think what you want, when you want. No one should
tell you what to think inside your head. It is OK to say “no”.
7. To pray. Don’t let anyone tell you that you can’t pray. You can pray quietly to yourself,
but our laws say that you can pray anywhere, anytime, as long as you are not forcing
someone else to against their will.
8. Call for help if you don’t feel safe. You can call 911, or you can tell a teacher, or a
counselor, if something is happening to you right then, or maybe at a different time, that
feels unsafe. Don’t let anyone tell you for any reason that you can’t tell about something
scary.
9. To not be abused. Abuse is when a grownup or a bigger kid, or another person does
something to you that hurts your body. Or they keep food, air, or clothes away from you,
or a parent or caregiver if they leave you alone so that you might get hurt without
supervising you. Abuse can also be bad touching. If someone wants to touch you in the
areas covered by a bathing suit, or wants you to do that to them, this is abuse. If any
kind of abuse is being done to you, call 911 right away!
10. Not see movies, magazines, or actual people naked. If someone is naked and does not
cover themselves up, or pretends it was an “accident” that they were naked and keeps
doing this “accident” again and again, they are doing a CRIME and this is abuse. Call 911
right away. It will not go away if you ignore it. It will get worse. It will progress to
abuse. Call 911.

****************************************

Also posted is the actual statute from WA pertaining to discipline of children, defines what actions would be considered abuse. My child and I have discussed this before because schools have teachers or a special class or program where they tell a child "if your parent ever hits your or spanks you, you need to tell a teacher right away because this is abuse". So... I thought it prudent to tell my child the exact definition of abuse in the state of WA so she's real clear on it and can report any abuse accurately. Also, when she read this law, this seemed to empower her, the knowledge of what people can and can't do by law. I am still looking in WA state law for statutes regarding *** abuse and showing pornography to a child. So far I've found the statutes on sexual abuse (they're kind of graphic, I didn't let her read those, but have provided lots of books at her level on the subject for her to read- she's fascinated with the books). I found statutes on showing pornography to a minor in a store, allowing minors into a store or bar or establishment that deals in pornography and prostitution,or displaying lewd or pornographic content from the window of your house so that the general public and minors can see it. I've also found statutes regarding sexual exploitation of minor- which states that you can't use a minor for prostitution, or do a *** act or molestation or etc. if it's going to be PHOTOGRAPHED OR FILMED, or photograph or film them naked. The photograph or film or prostitution seems to be the ongoing theme of sexual crimes against a minor, minus having *** with a teenager, etc. I have yet to find an actual law that says it's illegal to show pornography to a kid, which bugs me because that's what's being shown to my kid. Or has been. Dunno if it's still going on or what.

I look for these because I go into court and am trying to present my case, and when i go to the police, I like to present what law it is, which is the primary authority, and then her report of what happened. When I show her what the law says and then she can say "that did or didn't happen" to me, she seems to gain some confidence from this.

But then... in court the dad could say that I'm just trying to adversely affect her again by doing this stuff... Sigh... Sometimes I think it's better that the education and information come from outside sources besides myself, 1. Who believes Mom. I sure didn't. 2. Outsiders won't be considered biast by the courts (at least in theory, so far not in practice) and can report disclosures.


Anyways, if anybody knows of the number of the actual statute, if one exists, for showing **** to kids, it would be handy to have. Otherwise, I will be writing another letter to legislature asking why there is not a statute for this, and why photography and filming seems to be the requirement vs. just exposing kids to crap, in the statute.

Keep it writing. You sure do have a lot to say. Write all the letters you can to everyone you know. Ever thought of starting your own advocacy campaign? You're educated, determined and carry a strong voice - that's valuable. Not to mention, being a victim yourself. I'll bet it'll be a success if you play your cards right.

Best of luck with it.
jes