I grew up in the church. I even continued throughout college and when I got married, we kept going. Then in enduring the problems of my marriage I stopped going (big mistake). I went through a very difficult period spiritually speaking. I gave up on God and refused to pray and thought I'd never set foot in a church again.

A friend of mine who knew what I was going through kept working on me until I gave up to get him off my back. Now I am back and so much good has come to my life because it, especially having a helping hand in instilling the values I want my children to have.

I won't go back to the church we attended as a couple however. As I understand it (from the kids), the new woman and baby go there with him.

I never understood the whole point. I've been to church a few times with friends and find the whole experience very cultish and creepy.

Seromns on life lessons and effective values are fine, but throw the whole God thing in, and I think "Whoa! Why ruin a good thing with mumbo jumbo?"

I know such belief gives many the strength to live their lives, but I find that the strength can be obtained from the lesson alone, not requiring belief in a deity. Can I get the godless version of the sermon, please? Guess not.

Then there are the "christians". I use the word in quotes, not to mean Catholics, Protestants, Lutherans, or any of the specific denominations of the Christian church, but rather those who call themselves "christian", wander around with a glazed-look in their eyes, like something out of a 50s B horror-flick, and very forcefully try to "save" those who do not see the world as they do. I knew one who, instead of taking her sick son to the doctor, would pray over him instead. Hello!? Aren't doctors part of "God's creation," too? Why not take the boy to the doctor and offer a prayer? Yeah, she and her husband both had that "glazed look" about them. One kid caught the faith bug early ("Hallelueah, boy's gonna be a preacher ma!"), and the other one was so put off by it that she became a royal slvt, likely just to rebel.

If religion can give rise to that kind of mania, I think I'll pass.

I suppose anything can be taken to an unhealthy extreme, and that does not discredit it's value in a healthy context, but I do see why faith is called the "opiate of the masses".

SD, I can only speak for myself. I have a very personal relationship with god and my exact beliefs don't often match what people assume a "Christian" believes.

For me, church is a time of reflection and admiration for life around me. There are times during church when I feel very connected to god and humanity, especially when singing or after hearing an especially hopeful message delivered by my pastor. I could see how an atheist would write these feelings off as chemical reactions or some sort of "opiate" but I also think the human mind is imperfect and there are things even the smartest person cannot rationalize. So I take my spiritual feelings at face value, I don't rationalize them, and these feelings are the reason I believe in god.

I don't go to church to "learn about god" I was raised in a church so I think I've learned most of what I'm going to already. I go for reasons that some might consider selfish or even hypocritical... all I know is it works for me.

The "life lessons and effective values" you mention are only part of what I go to church for... I also experience a lot of hope and wonderment in church which leaves me feeling really good inside. The allegory of jesus "lifting my burden" holds true for me... I feel much lighter after church and laying my burdens at the cross helps me to accept life as is without trying to conform to what others think I should be or be the perfect person I sometimes wish I was

I've probably said a mouthful so I'll stop... I think when it comes down to it me and you come from separate paradigms so I couldn't really explain it no matter what words I use

As far as "godless versions" I'm sure you could find these in a unitarian type church or even in Buddhism which has no deity if I understand it correctly.

quote:

Originally posted by Moosey:
I think when it comes down to it me and you come from separate paradigms so I couldn't really explain it no matter what words I use.

As far as "godless versions" I'm sure you could find these in a unitarian type church or even in Buddhism which has no deity if I understand it correctly.

That's likely correct: I just don't "get" the "peaceful feeling" part, though I don't deny that it works for others nor would I suggest that it shouldn't. But, when I see first hand how others are transformed temporarily through their experiences in church, my natural reaction is to become afraid, very afraid, of the "spell" cast over them. That's quite the opposite to what those who invite me expect: feelings of joy, peace, or belonging. I have also seen some very, very, bad effects as a result of the way some people live their spritual lives.

For the record, I am not an atheist, I am agnostic. Surprisingly, as an agnostic, I find that I debate matters of faith quite often with those that are devout, and have become quite knowledgable about the writings in the Bible, Talmud, and those of the Baha'i faith.