I am a single dad, supporting my ex and kids. I had to take a job out of state to continue support payments, and have kept them up to date (and throw in an extra $100 a month for them( and fly to see my kids once and sometimes twice a month. I keep a place in their home town for the few days I see them.

Their mother and I felt it best that they stay in the house they new as home, so I kept the retirment funds and gave her the home. She knew that even with the $2200 I send her every month, she'd either have to sell the house, or get a job, even a simple one: I agreed to pay all child care costs if she was working. To make it easier, we agreed I'd pay double alimony for the first three months.

Well, it's many months later, she has no job, is behind on the mortgage, and the babysitter she uses just sent me the most horrific pictures of the kids' living situation: dog feces left in one room for 4 days, cat-urine soaked carpets, water with algae or something groing in it spilled in my son's room (which is impassable). General food mess all over the floors, and ruined carpets. Their mother claims she has no money for food, yet has managed to purchase a computer for her self.

My daughter required a computer for school, so I managed to get her a cheap laptop. Alegedly, her mother smashed it in a fit of rage.

The kids' mother has sent them to see me in torn clothes with no jackets in cold weather, to which I immediately bought them three sets of warm shirts, slacks, and jackets, sending them home in one set.

Their mother is about to lose the home. I am prepared to purchase it back from her, and have a nanny ready to look after them there, and desperately want to gain custody of them. I never realized that their mother would "fall apart" like this: she was given a fair chance to either get a job, or sell the house, and find a place to rent, or buy a smaller one.

My kids are hungry, miserable, and legal advice has been to wait until they are out on the street before I can demonstrate that their mother is unfit to care for them. Above all, to not help them now, as it would hurt my case. (I made the mistake once of sending a support cheque early once, and had to send another one: the first was "clearly" a gift.)

I will be arriving with Christmas presents, an d have them from 12/26 to 1/1 but that will not end their misery.

The babysitter (and others) are willing to testify to the children's mother's incomptence (financial, keeping the home clean, etc.), but a legal process will take a while.

What would you do in this situation? If I step in and help my kids, their mother gets all the credit because "she was helped".

Divorce is hard on everyone. It is especially harder (IMO) for the one who didn't choose to give up. I can compare the pain to a spouse who died, except in death, it would have saved me the humiliation I felt.

Has it been a year since your divorce finalized? What you are describing sounds like you are recently separated and if she is used to a particular lifestyle and has not worked for years, its a bitter realization that you are suddenly responsible for everything. Is her family capable of helping her? If not, I would hope you would help your children and their mother.

One thing which would help emensly is knowing she can count on you if she cannot care for the children.

I couldn't advise you on to what to do with the house or proceed to gain custody. I would suggest you kindly work out a solution together and let your children know you haven't abandoned them.

BTW, how do your children feel about the situation? Do they ask you to care for them till their mother gets better?

quote:

If I step in and help my kids, their mother gets all the credit because "she was helped".

I'm a little confused by this statement. What does it matter if she gets all the credit? You're helping your children. The only person bothered by your "helping" is the other woman.

My ex has demonstrated financial irresponsibility and has created an unhealthy living situation for her kids.

She insisted on taking on a financial burnen that even generous alimony and child support would not sustain without modest employment. She could have sold the home, and pocketed $100,000, which could have gone toward a more modest home, or savings to give her time to find a job, while she rented an apartment.

I am not in a position to provide greater support for an extended period of time: any emergency funds I can provide for the kids' welfare are coming out of savings. I am already paying the maximum amount prescribed by law in child support.

But, the issue is not money as much as the kids health: they live in filth (documented: animal feces and urine) with a mother that did not want to see them on Mothers' Day, and who purchases toys and a dog instead of food. More money would not make the unsanitary conditions go away.

My daughter expressed fear last time I returned her to her mother, I had to involve the police: my ex tried to drive us off the road when I went to return the kids to her! I told her to tell a police officer if she was indeed scared, but she became silent, and her mother took her. There are documented instances of my ex striking our daughter beyond the legal limit for normal corporal punishment.

Legal advice has been to pursue custody on the basis of my ex's history of physical violence, financial irresponsibility, and most importantly, placing the kids at a health risk. Either that, or petition that the kids be taken into foster care. I am prepared to look after them where I live temporarily, or provide a live-in nanny to care for them where they live now (though she insists my ex leave, and has generously accepted to do it for just room and board) until I return from out of state permanently.

The most frustrating thing is that anything I do to help my kids (i.e. provide food, make sure they have warm winter clothing), when I don't see them (when I try to make them at least a little happy), hurts my argument for custody: it doesn't matter that they do not stave because I provide extra food, or don't go cold because I provide extra clothes. What matters is who the live with when their suffering is aleviated. I can not sustain paying my ex, AND rescuing her from financial disaster so my kids have a roof over their head, and providing any extras they need, so long as their caregiver is wasteful and continues to keep them in an unsanitary environment. This is not a sudden financial emergency that savings can deal with, but the start of a downward-spiralling pattern in her behavior.

SeattleDad,

I realize you are deeply troubled by the situation and as many singlemom's out there know too well, you could have chosen to walk away and abandon your children.

Too make her feel like she has a say in what you are doing, present 3-4 options (plans) you are capable of doing and let her pick one. Give her a time frame needed to make this decision. Write it up similar to a sincere busines proposal without any accuasations, name calling, or blame. Just.. this needs to be done for the love and health of our children... something that a loving and caring mother could not argue with.

I would be very weary if children services are notified and getting involved. You'll have more leagal problems IMO if they knew you knew about these conditions and did nothing.

If you do end up taking the children, to aliviate any further pain, I would make sure she knew it was temporary and will be returned after X amount of time and she can visit them, you are doing this out of the love for your children and your fear of child protective services coming down on her.

If you cannot get your feelings out if it, I suggest getting a christian family orientatated female lawyer to handle yur offer. One that does pro bono work for single moms. Perhaps she would be better in communicating more effectively for you.

I can truely understand why Clara Harris ran over her (cheating) husband in a fit of rage. (not accusing you of cheating)

I was silently cheering her actions and felt badly that she had now further ruined her family since her boys will not have a mother anymore.

There are many mothers out there who does not get the deal you stated above which would have made struggling to survive on the bare minimum easier.

I have already presented several options, pre- and post-divorce, but I am not prepared nor able to throw good money after bad. She is already receiving $2100 in support. I can claim what it costs me to see my kids against what I pay in support, but do not. (I lien the house every three months for the excess).

All options (most of which would keep the kids in that home and in their current schools and neighborhood, with close contact to their mother) have been rejected. She is insisting for an additional $1000 a month, which I can not afford, and which I know would do no good as far as living conditions go.

And no, I did not "cheat" on her.

With regard to CPS, I am following my lawyer's advice. Until recently (discovery of animal waste and mold in the home), the bar for neglect has not been met. With her financial irresponsiblity, and the state of the home, it may have been.

She can have as much contact with her kids as she wants, and was given a fair and generouse chance to raise them. But, she is clearly incapable of maintaining a healthy living environment for them, and left unchecked, will lose their home.

She has no income other than $2100 support a month, no credit history, likely doesn't realize that one is supposed to have auto insurance, has admitted to not having food for the kids, while spending money on less important items. These kids need to be in the immediate care of someone who can effectively look after them -- their mother is more of a sibling to them than a parent. Whether their mother improves to the point of being able to care for them is uncertain -- she claims to be seriously ill and has no health insurance (I pay my kids' insurance).

..... seems like a very fustrating situation and very hard to answer what would be the correct thing to do.

If you think about the question of marriage and love.... most of us like to believe persistence, patients, understanding, dedication... and love would solve the issues in marriage. so its very hard to advise what to do amicably (sp?).

Your story reminds me of a very close friend of mine who's wife was a cocaine addict. He has hid it for many years and tried in vain to get her help. It came to a point where he couldn't do it anymore and she wasn't the woman he married but a ghost of a person who couldn't independly live and care for herself as well as their children. I'll say she knew how to hide it well and get those around her to cover for her. He left the children at their mothers for a bit, so he wouldn't look like the cruel person who left and thus reason for her addiction. It wasn't until the children begged for him to take them that he did. Since he was only legally separated and in process of getting a divorce, he chose to set her up in an appartment for 6 months and put the house on the market. It's not the same settlement you have however, if you traded the house for the retirement fund.... you may just have to sit back and watch as she chooses to let the house go through forclosure. I would also make sure her decision for such doesn't affect your credit (not familiar with real estate laws)


If you're the co-dependent partner, its very hard to watch your partner fall and not come to their aid. I knew it was tearing him apart to let things continue as they were (even the children were covering for mom) .

What ever you choose, do it for the best interest of your children. Whatever fustrations and anger you feel towards her.... try to let it go. It won't help you or your kids.

Seattledad,

If your looking for suggestions and solutions others have tried....send me a PM. I know a site that will challenge your decisions and choices if you are up for constructive arguments and criticism. Lawyers get online and will hash the issue out and cite the law at times, especially if your post strikes a nerve.

Maybe you already know it. The word "firm" is censored there LOL.

Well, I put up with a failing marriage for the last seven years of it. I worked, did the cooking, much of the cleaning, driving everyone everywhere for appointments, etc. At one point I got a maid to try to keep the house in order.

We tried marital counselling three times. And the answer was always the same: I had to "do more": because I worked, I didn't do enough housework, and therefore had to "help out".

My ex's point was that she was "not my slave", and this was justification to not even clean up after herself. The maid eventually quit because she could not keep up. We never agreed on discipline, so the kids ran wild.

Naturally, this led to a great deal of resentment on my part, I lost all interest in my ex as a partner, she found companionship elsewhere, and we divorced. I expected that she would *finally* have to step up to the plate and manage the household. After all, I had no firm legal evidence that she was incompetent -- perhaps my presence was causing her to just not do anything. And our arguing was impacting the kids discipline.

Well, things aparently went downhill rapidly after I left.

And yes, her failure to pay the mortgage IS affecting my credit badly, as she has not managed to refinance the note. My recourse, according to our separation agreement, is to make the lender whole, and force a sale of the propertly. Perhaps *that* will make her consider other options. I fully intend to sue her for the financial damage she has caused, and collect from the proceeds of sale. This is not animosity: we agreed, with proper legal representation on both sides, to such terms. my objective is to recover as much as possible from the property, or the property itself, for my kids' benefit.

You seem to suggest that I should just throw more money at her -- to help her through a "difficult" time. I had been doing this for the last seven years of the marriage, with the aid of counselling, to no effect. She refused to participate.

I have no problem letting my ex "fail". However, this will have an impact on my kids, and I want to do what is best for them. Any additional support offered to my ex will just postpone her inevitable failure. She needs to be relieved of her responsibilities, financial, and possibly parenting, without restricting contact with her kids, so that she can start a fresh life.

The biggest problem I have is that, in order to demonstrate my ex's incompetence, I have to stand by and watch my kids suffer because of it.

quote:

You seem to suggest that I should just throw more money at her -- to help her through a "difficult" time.

No no no.... don't get me wrong I don't think in this case any amount of money will your ex. It doesn't seem like she can manage what most people would call a blessing. At more than $2k a month, a single mom can survive on it without working IMO.

The "help" I'm suggesting is compassion. You describe a fair deal above and many divorced friends I know didn't get time or choices like you offered. Stand firm and tell her, "I'm sorry you're going through this. That is the best I can do for you. Good luck."

:deleted: oooops now that was spiteful.

click on the link below. It seems to have similar issues you are experiencing.

Try this link

ooops That wasn't the post i was thinking about. It's on the site.. just forgot what the post title was.

Sometimes I don't read the posts too carefully.

I'm wondering why you offered her the house knowing she had to refinance it and she couldn't without a credit history. Wouldn't it be better to give her the savings to purchase her own home and you sell the house? (Eventhough the market is bad for sellers) I know it's ideal for the kids but if she can't refinance.... it seems like you set it on the path to forclosure unless you're willing to pay more or she get's another source of supplemental income.

I think the bottom line is things can't continue the way they are and the changes you both made is still working on the old system.
Too much heartache to keep it up... a fresh start sounds better.

If you take custody of the children... can you balance work and their issues at the same time? Teenagers can be a real pain sometimes... mine is, and I have to be on top of him before he gets a bad idea in his head. Maybe consider consulting when you have custody since it may allow you to have more time to bond with your children.

I just sense a lot of fustration in your post and not really a direct question.

It is fixable..... build a new foundation.

quote:

I have no problem letting my ex "fail". However, this will have an impact on my kids, and I want to do what is best for them. Any additional support offered to my ex will just postpone her inevitable failure.

I know how you feel about trying to keep your children safe and also needing to let the EX fail. My EX has a few DUI's in the past and a lot of car accidents since the time we were divorced. I think he's an alcoholic and the only protection I can give my children is an alcohol restriction when they are visiting him. I have to wait until something bad happens to stipulate supervised visitation. Is bad going to be our kids involved in an accident? One of them dead? and yet I can't deny him visitation or he can file contempt charges on me...thus loosing custody if a judge feels like I'm keeping them away from him. I'm lucky he shows little interest in them and forfiets most of his visitations.

Just wanted you to know others out there have been through a divorce and know how you feel trying to do the right thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Tessmit:
Sometimes I don't read the posts too carefully.

I'm wondering why you offered her the house knowing she had to refinance it and she couldn't without a credit history. Wouldn't it be better to give her the savings to purchase her own home and you sell the house?

She insisted on this! The equity in the house actually represented more than half of what we accumulated during the marriage, and she readily negotiated for less alimony for a shorter period of time to compensate.

She had one year to establish credit and refinance the note. The first 90 days, we agreed that I would pay double alimony to compensate for the time it would take her to find a job (she didn't need a very high-paying one with the $2100/month she received from me after the 90 days were up). To boot, I paid several of her bills and one extra mortgage payment during those 90 days.

Because I was still on the note, I had the right to force a sale of the property (to her complete credit, less any liens), should she default. She has.

So, she wanted a chance, and she got one. She failed.

quote:

(Eventhough the market is bad for sellers) I know it's ideal for the kids but if she can't refinance.... it seems like you set it on the path to forclosure unless you're willing to pay more or she get's another source of supplemental income.

What supplemental income? She was expected to get a job that provided at least $12,000 a year, and she'd be fine. She had several lined up when we were divorcing.

Both I and my attorney tried to explain that she was taking on a very high risk this way, but she was enamoured with keeping the house. Of course, her attorney made the point that the risk was her's to make. And, he was correct. If she succeeded, I'dve been happy for her.

quote:

I think the bottom line is things can't continue the way they are and the changes you both made is still working on the old system.

Well, she seems to think that I am responsible for her welfare and will happily pay whatever she needs to maintain her lifestyle without working. I am responsible only for the welfare of my kids. If she can't keep them in an environment conducive to their well-being, I will have to.

quote:

If you take custody of the children... can you balance work and their issues at the same time? Teenagers can be a real pain sometimes... mine is, and I have to be on top of him before he gets a bad idea in his head.

Of course. My daughter is not rebelious, though my son is. What I pay in child support now can easily cover any gaps in child care before and after school. And, my daughter is old enough to care for herself and babysit for short periods of time. (In fact, she proably runs my ex's household to some degree as it is now, and shouldn't have to on a continuous basis.)

quote:

Maybe consider consulting when you have custody since it may allow you to have more time to bond with your children.

Already considered, but we are putting the cart before the horse here: WA state is notorious for giving unemployed mothers custody on the grounds that a working dad is a less fit parent because he works. I do not know if I will be granted custody. I do know it will be an expensive battle.

quote:

I just sense a lot of fustration in your post and not really a direct question.

I thought I made it clear that I wanted opinions on how to mitigate my kids' suffering while the legal process to recover damages from their mother continues. This isn't a case of wanting to "get back" equity in the house: this is a case of saving as much value as possible for the kid's benefit, regardless of which parent controls it. Ideally, she will sell the house to me in exchange for my dropping the liens on it, and continuing to make it a home for our children. Alternately, the house will be sold on the market, I will recover my damages, and she will have some equity left to start a new life.

There are two issue here: 1) her breach of a separation agreement (not keeping payments current, and not refinancing); 2) whether she is competent to parent her kids. The immediate concern is how to minimize the impact of her breach (losing the house, one way or the other) and the current financial hardship on the kids.
Throwing more money at the situation will not solve it. Getting her out from under the burden of that home will help her, and ultimately her ability to be a full parent to her kids.

quote:

Originally posted by Tessmit:

I know how you feel about trying to keep your children safe and also needing to let the EX fail. My EX has a few DUI's in the past and a lot of car accidents since the time we were divorced. I think he's an alcoholic and the only protection I can give my children is an alcohol restriction when they are visiting him. I have to wait until something bad happens to stipulate supervised visitation. Is bad going to be our kids involved in an accident? One of them dead? and yet I can't deny him visitation or he can file contempt charges on me...thus loosing custody if a judge feels like I'm keeping them away from him. I'm lucky he shows little interest in them and forfiets most of his visitations.

Just wanted you to know others out there have been through a divorce and know how you feel trying to do the right thing.

I can understand how you have to deal with a potential risk to your kids. However, I have to deal with the immediate reality of my kids not having enough food to eat, having the gas, water, and electricity shut off, and being foreclosed upon any day now and knowing that if I "bail them out", it will be a stop-gap measure. My ex is too proud to not have insisted on keeping a house she could not afford, or to go to a food bank. She took extra money earmarked for food and purchased a used computer. While this matter winds its way through the courts, I have resorted to paying othes to bring food to my kids. I just hope she isn't feeding it to the dog instead.

It might seam cold-hearted that I am forcing a sale of her home. But, either I do, or the note holder will, and this way, I retain some control over the situation. Perhaps she will come to her senses and realise that the only way the kids can stay in that home, and those schools, and that neighborhood, is if I take it over, with appropriate compensation.

My lawyer and I have discussed strategy, and we believe we have a good one (though I will not disclose the details).