...Ok, so I'm learning to trust my instincts more...little by little.

But, I didnt not want to believe what that "little voice" was telling me for the last few months now.

My Ex ...in the last few months....recently broke up with her "S.O"...changed jobs, found a different place to live by herself...and has been asking that my youngest be allowed to spend the night.

Mind you...when she gave me the news (prior to) that she was breaking up with her "partner" and moving out...I was instantly suspicious.

This afternoon on the return trip from the counselor's office, my youngest confided in me....that her mother has been dropping hints...and guilt trips...regarding my youngest moving in with her. This is something my youngest does NOT want...but, also does not want her mom to hate her about.

Just trying to think clearly about this before making any "rash" moves.

Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

I forget, how old is your youngest?

Sounds like a move she could be making the decision out of loneliness.

I know my almost ex-wife seems to have guilt/depression issues over the growing distance between her and the kids. I'm even trying to keep them together but she just gives up if it doesn't come easy.

Hi Paulj

This situation sounds stressful. Question.....do you have physical custody? And how old is your youngest? Does she have a legal right to speak for herself?

Regarding instincts......I say go with them! They are usually right!

Keep me posted.
Chrisdi

Hey Paul. Sorry to hear you have this situation. I say follow what your instincts tell you. Also, listen to your daughter.

From how it sounds to me your daughter would rather be with you. Trust her.

See if you can work something out with the mother. Hey, she may never even come to you and ask. I am guessing you have custody which means that she would have to go to court to have the ruling changed. Most likely she doesn't want to do that. If she asks you tell her you are following the court documents and then leave it to her to petition to go back to court.
Otherwise try working out a plan where she gets a little extra time with your daughter.

Only you know the situation and what may happen. If she is a dreamer living in a fantasy world and never follows through with things I would sit and wait for her to file to go to court. (which would most likely never occur.)

Good luck Paul

Jennie.

Ok..well, to answer questions:

My youngest will be 13 in January.
Legally she cannot speak for herself till 15 and 7months. (Dont ask me how they came up with that)
She does NOT want to live with her mother.
Her mom does have real issues with living alone, as in she never has.
Her mom has also entered some counseling, which is also something she said she would never return to, and another thing that raised a red flag for me.
Yes, I have full custody, with her mother having visitation.
Yes, she would have to go to court to have that ruling changed.

On top of all that, her mother is telling her things like.... "I know you wont ever move, cause your puppy is at Dad's and the puppy is more important than I am."

I told her to tell her mother, (when she says things like that) "Mom, I'm here cause I want to be, but when you say things like that, I dont want to be around you.".

We'll see how it works out.

That is exactly what I would have told her to say. You are so wise Paul.

I tell Isaac things like that all the time. To teach him to stand up for respect. If someone (including an adult) says something to a child that makes them feel guilty or uncomfortable they should always have a right to make it known that they don't like that. Respectfully of course.

I totally agree with you Paul.

What a dad!!!!!

Jennie.

Hmmm well I would be questioning the mother as to why she says things like that and that she has no right to make her feel that way wether she is doing it on purpose or not is another story.

Certainly follow your instincts...your daughter will have to learn real quickly how to not allow guilt trips to influence her decisions. Setting boundaries as you have stated in your example is good, although she may be hesitant in saying it herself to her mother. Depends on their relationship I guess, but I would myself make a phone call explaining that you do not approve of those techniques.

My opinion only. May not be the right one but that is what I would probably do.

Paul, sorry to hear that, but i know that you are strong individual.

I'm sorry I missed this thread Paul. If your daughter just flat out doesn't want to live with her mother yet she doesn't want to hurt her mother's feelings, then I would take the fall for her. Let your daughter tell her mother that you just won't allow it. That way she doesn't lay the guilt trips on her anymore. If you don't want her misleading her mother then tell her that you're just not going to let this happen. Your daughter, obviously, isn't going to be too broken up about it AND she doesn't have to choose between parents.

From the sound of it, your ex doesn't seem to censor herself around the children so I'm sure she's been badmouthing you already. Make it worth it. You're not teaching her to lie, you're teaching her that sometimes it's kinder not to be completely honest with somebody. I'm sure I'll catch a lot of flack from this but this is what I would do.

You're not getting flack from me on that opinion, Amy. I'm in agreement.

Paul, I think it's important for your daughter to be able to preserve her relationship with her mother in this situation. I can remember once being put in the position of choosing which parent I wanted to spend the night with right after the divorce. I took on a lot of stress, worrying that one parent would be hurt if I were perceived as choosing one over the other. I don't think it's fair to put kids in this position. And shame on your ex for doing just that.

quote:

Originally posted by BASICALLYAMY:
...I would take the fall for her. Let your daughter tell her mother that you just won't allow it. That way she doesn't lay the guilt trips on her anymore. If you don't want her misleading her mother then tell her that you're just not going to let this happen. ....

I guess I should have mentioned that I already told my daughter that there was NO WAY in HelI she was going to live with her mother until she turned 18. And that was the end of it.

But, I want her to be able to preserve what she has left of a relationship with her mother. And the older Lauren gets, the more she realizes what mess her mother is....sad, but true.

Pual be careful I was as a teenager the child in this sttuation. When guilt didn't work my Father(who wanted me to leave my mom) said things like" your mom is just to strict with you she doesn't trust you to make your own decisions." He promised me freedom which is what every teenager "claims" they don't have enough of. He also used other forms of bribery. I didn't move with him in the end but it was close I actually went to court and said I wanted to and after a month moved back with my mom. A few years later he remarried and had kids. He stopped talking to me once he remarried. I think he just wanted anyone. He's is now divorced again. now trying to contact me again. See the pattern.
Good luck. We all know what a wonderful father you are.

quote:

Originally posted by normajean-sugar:
... When guilt didn't work my Father(who wanted me to leave my mom) said things like" your mom is just to strict with you she doesn't trust you to make your own decisions." He promised me freedom which is what every teenager "claims" they don't have enough of.

Actually she is already trying that...but, fortunately she doesn like her mom, THAT much! LOL

He also used other forms of bribery. I didn't move with him in the end but it was close I actually went to court and said I wanted to and after a month moved back with my mom. although I hope it doesnt come to that...I'm ready. Yes, I AM.

pattern.
Good luck. We all know what a wonderful father you are.

You are JUST WAY TOO SWEET TO ME....how far are you again?

Tom has made some noise in the past few years about the kids living with him. He even went so far as to tell Katie he would get a lawyer. Well I said absolutely not. I have enough dirt on him to bury him in court if I want to. Tracy finally put her foot down and shut him up about it. She loves my kids like her own but she knows I'm the mom. I'm the one who does all the hard stuff. I'm the one who goes to parent-teacher conferences and so on. She loves my kids but has no desire to raise them for me. Barring any unforseen emergencies or in the event something happens to me, she'll be glad to have them but that's the only way. In fact, we're looking into what we'd have to do to make sure Ryan doesn't end up with his father. If something happens to me, he'll go with Alex and Katie and be raised with his brother and sister.

My kids, of course, want to go live with dad. They have no responsibilities there. I hold my kids accountable for the bad things they've done and dad just ignores it and hopes it'll go away. Tracy and I have both tried to tell him that he's not doing the kids any favors by this behavior. Kids who aren't taught to follow rules when they're young, tend to not follow laws when they're adults. I'm going to have to send them out into the world alone some day and I want them to be prepared.

What a mess. I just don't understand why the repeated theme seems to be that one parent does all the hard work; the daily care, the loving, the worrying, and sacraficing. And then one day the other parent decides after finding themselves alone that suddenly they should have rights to have the children with them. And how long will that last. Do these parents not understand it's not about them, but the child?

Sorry, had to vent. It's fustrating to see all of the caring and hard working parents out there trying to do what is best for the children, and then having to deal with the instability of the other parent.

My son is only six weeks old and already his father is pulling similar stuff. He treats the child like a trophy and clearly cannot take care of his real needs. He gets lonely and then takes an interest. Not in caring for the child, but for his own needs (which changes daily if not weekly).

So Paulj, (and peers) from my short experience in all of this I say you can't fight with insanity. If your ex was rational she wouldn't be using your daughter as bait or some accessory to fulfill her own lonliness. Talking directly to her may work, but from the sounds of it, it would be like trying to nail jell-o to a tree.

I say go straight to a family lawyer and find out your rights and your daughter's rights. When she realizes you mean business and are not going to participate in a tug-of-war at the child's expense, she may back off. I know we all have a soft spot and want things to be amicable. Unfortunatly, some of us have different ideas of what that means.

But then again, maybe I'm just bitter!

Good luck and keep us posted on how things turn out.
Chris