I am pretty close to the end of my rope. I have 4 kids. I get a total of 600.00 per month for child support. I sent my ex a detailed list of recent expenses. The 2 oldest kids just got their license. They each got a car, cheap, but to get to school and their jobs, they needed it. They both have insurance to pay, all 4 had school physicals and immunizations, yearbooks, school fee, pictures, the list goes on. He is asking for statements from the doctor for all that was done and is upset that I would ask for money for school pictures that he wants. My daughter just had senior pics taken, we go tomorrow night to look at the proofs. He said, as he always does, he has an obligation to pay child support, but that is it. He told me that all the problems with the kids are because I work full time and they do not have a dad. Well, I worked full time when we were married and they didn't have a dad at that time either. He will send my 5 year old something in the mail and when my daughter asks her to pick up something for her he tells her that she has to pay him back for the item, plus shipping. He says "the only time you want to talk to me is when it's about money." Well, yeah, that's cuz 600.00 for 4 kids is unbelievable. Guess I shouldn't complain, at least I get something.
I'm just frustrated and tired. My 2 middle boys keep saying they want to go live with their dad. They tell me they love me. I do think in a way they realize what I do and have done for them. What they really want is to be by their friends there. They have made friends up here, but I guess they think the grass is greener... I found out in a round about way that he may be moving in the spring. They won't want to go to another state, cuz they would have to start all over again. My parents tell me to just send them to him. That I can't keep on going on this way. I called my mom the other night and I was crying uncontrollably. I'm rambling, I know. I just have so much pent up inside I'm just trying to get some of it out. I'm going to stop rambling. Thanks for letting me get this off my chest.

Hun I get it I did finally cave and my older 2 sons are with there dad.It has been rough and I miss them.Spend alot of time crying.But the older 2 were just taking advantage of me stealing my rent money,drugs friend showing up all hours,drinking.All of this was my fault according to dad.Now he has them they have become even worse.Now dad has thrown out the oldest and his girlfriend.I had to realize that I love all 4 of them but me and the 2 youngest were suffering for there anger.No me and the 2 youngest are happy in a house of respect love and peace.Good luck with this if you need a friend pm me I know how devestating it is.In may I tried to overdose because of all this.So please vent away it is the wiser choice.Hugs Gail

For starters, I wouldn't give him any of the senior pictures if he doesn't help pay for them. You have to come up with extra money in addition to the $1200 'child support' that comes out of YOUR pocket every month, he should too.

As far as the boys going to live with their dad... I don't think there's a general right or wrong answer. It's definately traumatic for kids to be torn from a family and a home and moved to a place where they have to start over. You have to think about how each home situation would affect them and weigh the pros and cons of both. One thing I'll add, though, is that I think it's important that all the kids stay together (unless older ones are harming younger ones in any way) because they have been the only consistent thing they've had. They've left their father, when they visit dad, they don't have mom. They don't have their friends from home, their familiar surroundings. But they have had each other the entire time. Whether they live with dad or mom, they need relationships with both. As long as one parent or the other is not abusive in any way, I think it's ok for either one to be the custodial parent.

i dont really have any advice different from what has been said above but i just wanted to say i am so sorry for what u r going through. can hear the upset in ur post. luckily my little girl is only 2 but the thought of her wanting to go and live with her dad is the hardest thing that could happen for me so i totally understand the emotions u must b feeling. i am so sorry chick. a agree that u just need to weigh up the pros and cons and go from there.
as far as the money aspect. being a parent means foremost giving emotionally to ur child but children also cost money - thats part of the deal when u have a kid. so ur ex should be prepared to help out with stuff. im sure u pay for ur own photos and stuff so he should also pay for his.
i dont agree with these girls who try to squeeze the life out of their ex's where money is concerned but it sounds like what ur asking is for him to just be fair. i would never ask my little girl to pay me back money if i bought her something. thats just mean.
sorry couldnt really give u any good advice but please vent as much as u like chick!

I'm not sure if I would just send them. I wanted to go live with my dad so bad I did everything I could to make my mother want me out as bad as I wanted out. The problem is that I wasn't making an educated decision. My dad worked midnights, which meant I had the run of the house after hours. I got 2 jobs, 2 cars, went to high school and had the most ill focused life style I can think of! I drank, smoked and partied so hard people I don't even know come up to me now and I don't even know who they are! But they know a whole lot about me and what I used to do and basicly I smoked and drank myself retarded. What I wish my mom had done was just deal with my crap and make me stay. Make me see that her home was the safest place for me. I have 2 kids now at the age of 21. Go me! Thats what I get for trying to raise myself!
If you know 100% that your boys would be better off with you, do what you have to do to convince them of that.Have a family meeting and discuss the parenting issues that bother them about you. Involve your ex. If the issue is curfew, see what your exs enforcement would be, ect. I know it is hard to step out of the tough mother mode but if you are going to convince them to stay theinfo will have to come at them at their level.At 15 and 12 no matter what they say they NEED someone to make them come home. They NEED someone to enforce dicipline.
My guess is if your ex is game for this switch he is grossly underestemating the hatred that will sometimes spew out of their mouths once the initial thrill will wear off of the new home.If he isn't strong enough to fight with them to the death about issues he knows he's right about then everything will crumble foryour boys.

For me, a grave, depressing subcouncious message came through every time I got my way with my parents .I loved it at the time(negotiating a 2 am weekend curfew was one of my finest hours as a teenager).Of course I didn't know it then, but I know it now The message was "You aren't worth the fight."

They might not stay anyway. They are at the age where they can decide. My mother had to watch me self distruct and it hurt her more then I hope I'll ever know first hand. But when I look back I see 1 parent willing to be my ememy and 1 parent simply wanting to be my friend. I always will remember that and when my kids start to hate me due to rageing hormones I'll be more then willing to jump in the boxing ring.

apoligies to any I have struck a nerve with. No one knows what their little ones have in store for themselves. I'm sorry to hear of 2 other "me"s out there ALWAYS LEARNING. My mother's name is Gail!

By the way I'm in no way suggesting that my parents were thinking at the time "Your not worth the fight". I was the only kid allowed out till 2 am on weekends but I wanted it anyway. I had just turned 16 at the time. I was also a cutter. Loved all sorts of angry vile music. Some of which I still listen to just not a loud. You can have a balence between good and evil. Even If you feel like your the good and their the evil. Thats all I got. Again I feel for your boys Gail I really do.

Great post lemonade43! What a keen insight for those of us who are your mom and dad's age. My daughter just turned 12. She is not the same little girl I used to pick up in the spring. That little girl has been greatly affected by hormones. The young lady I now deal with is different from that little girl. I won't go in to details but you just answered more questions for me then I could have got from my girl in the next year.

Hang in there MCD. Ramble away if it helps. We're listening.

(edit: I was writing as you were posting the second tiome.)

Crystal I so get what you are saying.My problem is no matter how hard I fight for them they just feel comfort in hurting me and the children.I have spent many days feeling guilty for this and I cant anymore.These boys Told me to leave due to my health I had been bedridden for a long time.He made sure that I didnt get to a doctor.Made sure my health card was expired.Reported my bank card lost or stolen this was well we were still married.The boys love me and know I love them.They both keep saying to me that they like the fact that dad is stupid.They all just yell at each other down there,put downs,how they are going to kick the tar out of dad.I know in my heart they have a very hard time knowing that I now suffer serious health issues due to there father.It is physical brain damage I am loosing the abilities in my arms and legs,balance problems,seizures,disc problems,neck problems,memory issues and that is just a start to the mess.The one thing I can say is I got this ways by taking care of and protecting my kids.I got them all out to safety and they chose to go back or chose to force my hand with cas either the oldest leaves or the 2 younger children.He didnt want help,stoled,drank,drugs has had 3 girls pregnant,wont go to school and expected me tpo pay for it all.He says since I brought him into this world I owe him he is 17Yrs old.He also has had 2 girls try to charge him with statutory rape.I must be well before I can have the strenght to help him.He also must want the help. thanks for listening Gail

mcd: What people don't understand is what the court advised me: child support is strictly for paying for food and living expenses only! It is not intended for school expenses, clothing, dental bills, medical copays, or anything else!The court told me that! I'd get something in writing from the court as to a definition of "chils support" and hand deliver it to mr. idiot and mail it to him as well. He need to realize he is in it for as long as 18 yrs for each kid! Tape it to his forward if need be!

I am certainly not saying that what you did was wrong learning always. Some kids just don't want it and what I run into a lot is just the fact that the old way of parenting needs to go out the window. Kids are too exposed for their own good. You don'tknow how much I wish I had grown up in my parents "day". Everything that my mom, my grandma, and hers before knows about parenting and whats works just doesn't work anymore unless you want to home school your kids and move to the country. I saw this thing on discovery health channel called "14 kids and pregnant again" They have great kids who do everything you could wish of children. They are penticastal (or so the females in skirts tell me) and they homeschool and they pretty much have their own little world going on.

I can't stand the idea of me thinking I know what I'm doing as a parent only to see them walk out the door and get their childhoods and lives raped on my own front lawn. 6th graders wearing oral *** bracelets???

I refuse to believe all of those girl's parents were just horrible and neglectful. I just think that what worked before as a parent doesn't work anymore. I have racked my brain, since the moment I read my 1st pregnancy test, on how I could keep my kids from going down the path that our sick a$$ society has extravagantly lit up for them. EHHHH! All I know I that the only thing my mom didn't give me was brutal disclosure into her life.

Back when she grew up no body ever talked about such things as oral ***, designer drugs, ***, multiple partner, or anything that wasn't on leave-it-to beaver. I feel likethe only thing that could possibly help my kids to take lifes risks seriously is if I am the first to tell them. That way they know it wasn't just some person way off in neverland this stuff happens to. It happened right in their town and it happened to me. And I can be the first person to explain why things in their life is so confusing, why I didn't always have it together, and that life is yours and yours alone and that life will kick your butt if you set it in cruise control and let other people steer.