I'm curious if anyone here has encountered a situation like this, and if so, how did you deal with it?

Last weekend, my gf and I went kayaking. I've been involved in this sport for about 10 years now. Sandra is a relative novice, having been out about 5 or 6 times since last year.

The day started out okay - the wind was up a bit, and the waves were maybe a foot or so high. Not too bad - well within my limits, and the gf has dealt with water like that before. We stay fairly close to shore when paddling, so that if something happens, we'll practically be able to walk back to dry land (it's a shallow lake).

Anyways, the wind picked up a bit, and the waves got a bit higher (2 feet). Sandra still felt comfortable with heading out again, and I had no problems with the conditions either. We had paddled about 10 minutes, and then things kind of went south.

I got caught flatfooted by a wave, and it rolled the boat. I did what's referred to as a 'wet exit', I released the spray skirt, and exited my kayak. Note: It's quite easy to slide out of a kayak when it is upside down, contrary to some people's belief.

At this point, I'm in good spirits, and Sandra is okay. I made a few jokes, and mentioned that she will have to drive back, because I lost my eyeglasses during the roll. I encouraged her to head back to shore, as it is not too far away, and I will get there in a few minutes. She stubbornly refuses (she is like that. Then again, so am I).

The wind and the waves push me off course, and I end up drifting towards a bit of a cove with a very rocky bottom. I can scarcely walk through it, so it takes me way too much time to get to shore, so that I can dump out the water from my boat, and get back on the water.

In the meantime, unbenownst to me, the conditions on the lake have gotten much worse. The waves have picked up considerably, going as high as 3+ feet. When I finally reach Sandra, she is more frightened than I have ever seen her (or many other people). She is getting very panicky, and that is not a state of mind anyone needs to have when dealing with a situation like that. I calm her down, and give her directions and assurances, so that we can reach the shore. It takes a while, as we have to alter our course somewhat, due to the waves. We did get there, though. I walked back to get the car (after borrowing her eyeglasses, as we have a similar prescription), came back, got our gear loaded up... etc, etc.

Happy ending, right?

Well, yes and no. Both of us were quite happy to have made it back. We didn't really give it much thought, except that we need to practice some rescue skills, and Sandra needs to work on some basic techniques (and it seems that I could do with a refresher course, as well)

A few days later, though, it hit me like a wall. We had a date a few days later, and all of a sudden, I wanted nothing to do with her. I wondered what the h*ll that was all about. It dawned on me afterwards - if you disassociate yourself from someone, their loss cannot hurt you.

Then the "what if's" came in full force. "What if she rolled and couldn't get out, while I was heading towards shore?" "What if she hit a rock with her head when she rolled the boat?" And so on, and so on. The guilt about what could have been was horrific. How would I explain to her son that my stupidity and arrogance caused the death of his mother? And that he would have to go live with his (multiple expletives deleted) father now?

I have I talked to Sandra about this a couple of times, and she is all like "Don't worry - we are going to take lessons, and practice, and we will be better prepared if anything like that happens again. And I made the choice to go out again, so it is just as much my fault."

As much as I would like to accept that, I am having a hard time. I was the person there who has a decade of experience, and who has dealt with that rather tricky lake on many occasions. I was therefore the one responsible for her safety, and for making the call as to whether or not to she should remain on the water. If I died, well, that would be my own d*mned fault. I consider myself expendable. Sandra, on the other hand, is not. She has a son who depends upon her, and needs her.

So, I ask you folks for advice. Have you ever been in a situation where your decisions could have killed someone? How did you deal with it?

I look forward to your words of wisdom.

quote:

So, I ask you folks for advice. Have you ever been in a situation where your decisions could have killed someone? How did you deal with it?

Oh.... any doctors reading this? (It would be an interesting reply)

flatlander, it sounds like a loaded question. It made me think of drunk drivers who got caught, people telling others to use drugs, or those you tube vidoes of dumb bravery acts (if their mothers only knew what they were doing).

Anyway, your question involves taking risks especially with other people's lives. I think we do this everyday to some extent. It's part of being a family. I need to work so I leave my child at daycare. Something horrible happened and could have killed my child. Do I feel responsible? To some extent, I'ld question my decisions... because I love my children and want to keep them safe. The responsibility of love?

I could tell when my EX decided to "detach" himself from his family. The selfish choice to leave us to fend for ourselves because we weren't going to ruin his fun or spend any more of his money on the basic necessities of child raising. IMO, I think my EX deals with his decisons by blaming others and drowning the guilt with alcohol.

As for how I deal with risks... I'm kind to myself knowing I made the best decision at the time and "when I know better, I'll do better",<---Oprah said it It's part of being a family, and your children will take risks that you'll have to be forgiving with.

Listen, I dealt with something similar by not putting my self at risk.
When my daughter was born one of the first things I did was sell my motorcycle, you may say that ppl ride them all the time and nothing happens, I agree with you 100 % but I wasn't going to put my self at risk and have my daughter grow up without a father. Also I was 38 when she was born and I had been a truck driver since I was 19, lots of experience, you might say, kind of like your kayaking experience, but, one day, it dawned on me, while I was driving in Oregon under a heavy rain that something could happen and alter my daughter's life for ever. In the same way a CEO or a president shouldn't put them selfs at risk because their responsibilities to their respective companies, I believe we should do the same for our children. We had plenty of time to kayak, ride bikes, be a Richard Bransom want a be, etc. before they were born.

Adrian

I happen to think that though we have a huge responsibility in raising our children that it doesn't mean we have to crawl under a rock, barricade the doors, and or wrap ourselves in bubble wrap. I think that we are our best if we continue being who we are, doing what we do....within reason of course. We take a chance everyday we open our eyes and venture into the world. Heck, ever hear the saying that most accidents happen in the home?
As an example, I still ride my motorcycle, I just don't push the limits to the same degree as I used to when I wasn't "responsible". I just don't believe that as much as we do sacrifice for the good of our children, that it means we have to give up everything completely. Kinda like all things in moderation or whatever.

First question...could you really have stopped her from going back out if she wanted to? Probably not. I think to some extent we do put ourselves and others at risk everyday. We can't stop living to ensure nothing happens. Just last weekend I took my kids hiking in the mountains...now some may say I'm crazy to take three little boys hiking by myself...but I'm teaching them how to be safe and still do things we love to do. Obviously you and your gf enjoy doing things together and I think it's great. Yes you were the more experienced of the two, but she's an adult as well and makes her own choices. Just be thankful that nothing happened and get more training like she suggested.

Hey Don, I think our thinking is debatable, I stopped riding bikes and my ex almost got killed and suffered irreparable damage as you know, makes me think I could've kept riding forever and nothing would've happened to me, after that I don't know what to think anymore, I have a hard time picturing my daughter being raised by the grandparents. May be when she is a little older I buy one.

I would try and focus on the fact that you guys were doing something you both enjoy. That you both knew the risks but decided to go out anyway, and your experience helped you keep a cool head that lead to both of your safe returns. It is because of you that you are both safe.

Maybe wear helmets from now on, so you won't worry about the possibility of hitting your heads. But don't dwell on what could've happened, it will eat you up. Be thankful in the present that you are both okay and got through it together.

quote:

Hey Don, I think our thinking is debatable

Absolutely Adrian....there's plenty of pros and cons to it. I look at it like most all motorcycle accidents could have been avoided....seriously. I've been riding since shortly after I could ride a pedal bike in the dirt. Then when I could ride on the street I got a street bike and learned the hard way what defensive driving really meant. I'm a firm believer that most motorcycle accidents could have been prevented....either rider error or assuming that the guy in the car sees you. Heck, I even take my daughter out somewhat regularly on the back....she loves it.

It reminds me of this friend of mine that we used to go riding together he said when each one of his kids came of age he took them for a ride to ****, scare the everything out of them make sure they didn't like it and it worked, 15 years later non of them like motorcycles...lol. his idea was that he loves to ride but knows of the dangers so he didn't want his kids to do it. I saying this because many times, when I'm weak I think about getting a bike with a sidecar for her...hehe.

I think how you're feeling is a normal reaction from what happened and as much as you were responsible for her safety, she's just as responsible in knowing what her limits are. She's an adult afterall. Keep talking with her about it until you feel better. Did you go on that date?

Your kayak experience could very well be replaced by a multitude of things. We can't predict everything that's going to happen but we can do our best to prevent a situation as much as possible. After that, fate has it's own agenda.

quote:

Originally posted by Adrian1trk:
We had plenty of time to kayak, ride bikes, be a Richard Bransom want a be, etc. before they were born.

Lol...well, not all of us. It's alright though, because that means I won't be that old once Little Bobby's grown. And trust me, once he's grown up? You're gonna find me skydiving in Amsterdam with a syringe in each arm and a hooker riding on my back.

I was looking for a thread to bid farewell in though, and this one looks good. I gotta take off again. I know I've said this a hundred times (well, maybe more like 10), but I got **** done at work and home this week and SFV is largely the reason. I dunno why it's so hard for me to do things in moderation. It's always all or nothing with me.

This particular SP forum splurge was because I'm just feeling overwhelmed. I still haven't fully finished getting the new house set up, because I have a vacant apt I still gotta finish before I can rent it. Starting Aug 1 I'm actually gonna have 2 vacant apts, and at that point the 2 mortgages will eat ~85% of my income That situation's not stable, and it'll cut into the $ reserves I need to actually *finish* the apt so that I can rent it. Uggh, but I only have enough $ to finish the apt if I do all of the work myself and I don't know where I'll find the time to do that with the job situation and lil b at home. My job is unbearable too and I have a new one that wants me to start, but that'll take more time that I don't have. I met with the principal of my son's new school last week too, and he was not cooperative. I spent every penny to live in his town, however, so I don't have any option but to find a way to make him work with me. I meet with the superintendent next week who I'm sure will take one look at me and say, "what the **** can *you* know." Bah...sometimes when you have too much to do, you just feel like doing nothing. I wouldn't call SP posting nothing though. It's a way to feel like you accomplished *something* that day, even if it just took listening to someone for 5 min and spending 15 min telling them what you think.

Uggh...and honestly? I don't need to wait until lil b's grown up before I start living my own life. Once the stuff in the paragraph above is done, I should have much free time to pursue stuff for myself. The cool chick in the astarte post I linked to before isn't gonna be renting from me soon, and she seems to want to hang out after she moves. OMG...she's been hitting the gym and looking unbelievable. I found out that the house across the street from me has parties every night after dusk too, with a bonfire and BBQ and beer. Things could be pretty good for me I think, once I get the **** done above. Lol...hopefully I can handle the fun...

Anyway...I'll probably look around for the rest of the night before clearing my browser history and forgetting SFV. Take it easy..

Later,
Bobby

PS - Keep it up (Yo!)Adrian, even if the mod doesn't always agree with you. You're adding a different voice to the discussions you post in, and if nothing else you deserve a Most Improved Award.

Well Bobby, it was good seeing you around again....seriously. I gotta laugh about the last comment in your post. It's true though, and something I hope everyone keeps in mind. Just because I'm a mod doesn't mean that everyone has to agree with everything I say when it comes to points of view about parenthood etc. I'm a member first and foremost and I certainly am not some all seeing/all knowing person. I've got mistakes coming out my ears, somethings had to be learned the hard way and I am still learning each and every day.

Anyway, I hope that the wind is always at your back and that you won't be gone forever....check in any time you like.

quote:

Originally posted by Tessmit:

quote:

So, I ask you folks for advice. Have you ever been in a situation where your decisions could have killed someone? How did you deal with it?

Oh.... any doctors reading this? (It would be an interesting reply)

Not a Dr., but a paramedic. I have had several full arrests (most of which came during my last pregnancy). You do what you know to the best of your ability. That is it. I have had people that did not make it, that is just the "circle of life". I know that sound cold, but it is true. Of course this is VERY different than knowing the person. I can assure you that even though I have learned what I need to do, (Certified Paramedic, have a BA in Emergency Medicine, am certified in PALS - Pediatric Advanced Life Support, along with others) I fear of having to do any life saving attempts to my own kids or any family members. In fact I honestly do not wish to have to work on any child. In these and similar situations emotions run high, but you will do all that you can at the time. Later you will look back and second guess yourself, but all you can do is what you know.
Don't stop doing what you love because of fear. You could be the safest person on the planet and still get hit by a drunk driver in the middle of the day, standing on the sidewalk at a cross walk. Now that this sounds completely morbid and depressing I will say love those around you and live today. Second guess yourself for a only a little while, learn more, and get past this.

quote:

Originally posted by BigBobby:

I was looking for a thread to bid farewell in though, and this one looks good. I gotta take off again.

We'll miss you around here, Bobby! I've always appreciated your advice for newly single parents as they heal and work past the initial hurt. You, yourself, have come a long way!

And if you ever need help "getting **** done at work and home," well, you know where to find us.

And at the very least, we hope (well I do, anyway!) that you'll be posting skydiving pics from Amsterdam with the hooker riding on your back.

TTYL!

quote:

... Anyway...I'll probably look around for the rest of the night before clearing my browser history and forgetting SFV. Take it easy..

Later,
Bobby

PS - Keep it up (Yo!)Adrian, even if the mod doesn't always agree with you. You're adding a different voice to the discussions you post in, and if nothing else you deserve a Most Improved Award.

Well it's sad to see you go. You are fun in chat! I haven't known you long but you were helpful to me and I thank you for that. Take care and hopefully you get all your **** done soon!

PS. When you're drunk after one of those BBQ's maybe you can log in temporarily and chat again.

Thanks to everyone for the responses.

I guess I have gotten over the shock of 'what could have been'. I ended up taking a kayaking lesson, and it is amazing how easy it is to do a rescue (ie: getting back in the boat after a wet exit). I've done one and two person rescues now. Now, I've just got to get the gf into a class, as she was unable to attend the first time around.

And you folks are right - I can't make decisions for her, or be her keeper. And I definitely can't give up on one of my favourite sports. Especially after I just bought a new kayak.