For some reason, I'm feeling a bit guilty today. I know that there are a number of women who really hate their ex's, particularly the ones who feel that they were abandoned and neglected while they were pregnant. But they still allowed their ex the benefits of being a father to their child after they gave birth. I have quite a different reaction...

Let's just say I do not really hate my bf, I feel no bitterness towards him, but I plan to give him a taste of his own medicine. I actually pity him because I know that having a son is what he always wanted, and since he witheld from me the things I needed from him during my pregnancy, I will also withold from him the things he wants after I deliver. He has acted irresponsibly while I was pregnant, so I also do not hold myself responsible for letting him have the benefits of being a father to his son. He avoided being involved during my pregnancy, so I too will avoid him from being involved when his son comes out. He did not want to face the consequences of what we both did -- therefore he won't also partake in the benefits.

I keep on remembering his words to me... that he *hates* it when he feels that I want him to feel my pain, because he can't. So I said to myself, he doesnt need to feel my pain because he will have a pain that's entirely his own. Now I'm not sure if I'm being unfair and cruel -- maybe this is too much of a punishment that I'm giving him for his neglect and abandonment. But I just want to teach the guy a lesson, that he cannot just drop me like a hot potato and get away with it. I'm just feeling guilty right now because he's not really a bad guy, he's just a coward, which for me is forgiveable. And if I do see him so down and broken-hearted because of what I am doing, I also have the tendency to fold. But as of now, I'm sticking to my guns and I'd let him face the consequences of his actions -- because I already faced mine.

I'd like to know how you guys would view this. I'd also appreciate comments from the men, because my bf is a also man (and rightly so! LOL). Maybe you could give me an insight how would you feel if this were done to you, and if you think I'm being unfair here. Thanks!

Hmmm this goes right along with the thread started yesterday regarding forgiveness.
And for me?...Well, I dont hate my Ex. It's not her fault she stupid; she was borne that way.

Hating what she did to kids?? THAT's another story altogether. But, obviously, that isnt the case for you,....YET.

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thread started yesterday regarding forgiveness

Paul--what's the title of that thread? I was having a big time fit yesterday.

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Well, I dont hate my Ex. It's not her fault she stupid; she was borne that way.

<-------that is so true. I've come to accept you can't fix stupid no matter how hard you swing the bat.

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Hating what she did to kids??

<----sometimes I think my ex really doesn't know how to be a world champ dad. He's so stuck in his paradigm even when it's so obvious that no one else believes his fantasy world.

All in all, I know he loves our boys and they do create times together (on rare occassions) they can remember for the rest of their lifetime. That is priceless to me since there's so many people out there without those cherished memories. A stepdad who will fill those kind of shoes are rare

One excuse I won't let my ex get away with is that I have kept the kids from seeing him. I want the truth on the table that he had the opportunity but chose not to make those relations. I am more than willing to let him follow the divorce decree's visitation schedule but he forfeits his time 90% of the time even when he lived 30 minutes away.


Some of my very close freinds beg to differ. They had told me they would cut all ties and disappear to cut out all the b/s i have to deal with.

Dawn, I think you are on the right track. Unlike you, my ex mad the choice himself to disappear and has been heard from sporatically but i am keeping him to his decision. I hope that your bf realizes what he has done, and does the right thing . . . whatever that may be.

I say: keep doing what you are doing.

It's a difficult position to be in. As a parent I'd like to think that we should put ourselves partially in our kid's shoes and think about what's best for them. It may mean that we have to put our own feelings aside, it may not change our feelings, just that we put them aside.
If he makes the attempts to be a dad after the fact of not being there for the pregnancy, that's all the kid is going to remember and down the road if that means that he/she has a dad and mom in their life than great. My opinion is that it beats not having the other parent in their life and growing up always wondering. As far as allowing that other parent to be a part of their life I think those judgments should be made more based on how they handle that position with the child directly. And even that is a huge struggle at times. My daughter's mom can't/won't pull her head out of her butt concerning this, and yet I still don't work towards cutting all ties. That's her mother and she adds more drama than positive input, alright....all drama...no positive input, but it's still her mother and now my daughter is old enough that I allow her to make up her own mind.

Dawn, I understand exactly what you are saying and sympathize 100%.

However, there is something I will point out...
Does his irresponsibilty give you the right to act irresponsibly? Are you needing a justification for your actions?

I actually feel the same way, but I can't let myself hold it against him forever. I will continue to offer the opportunity for my son and his father to have a relationship because in my heart I believe that my ex will be the man I always believed him to be. I think he is lost in some bad decisions he made. I do not want to punish my son for his father's actions.


The thing I will struggle with is if and when my ex lets my son down. I want to protect him from his dad disappointing him. But I don't believe that stifling their relationship is the way to go about this.

I cant really answer wether you are doing the right thing cos I guess there is no right thing.
The way I feel about it is, to take my feelings of resentment out on the dad will only end up hurting the child. I could never deny my son seeing his father if he ever wants to. Being loved makes a confident child so the more people to be loved by the better.
Also I believe that holding a grudge only actually affects the person holding it.

Thanks for the reply guys. I just forgot to add one detail into the post, particularly for those who do not know my story yet... there are legitimacy issues in this country (illegitimate children do not have full rights to succession, inheritance and education here) so i have decided to have the baby be adopted *in name* by my parents -- just so that he will be legitimate. If my bf comes around and things do work between us, the adoption can be rescinded and we can always reclaim the child as its natural parents (but of course, there's a time frame here). If things do not work between us, my parents can always be the adoptive parents and I will be the guardian. I already have resolved issues regarding the kid because I have made sure that no matter what happens, he will always have a family with mother and father, and will enjoy full rights of a legitimate child (you can see in my earlier posts in this forum how i struggled through these issues).

That's why my concern now is the father -- I want to know if I'm being cruel by keeping the child from him. I think I just want to make him face the consequences as much as I did, and I also want to see for myself if he will really put effort to find his child -- because if he doesnt try hard enough, I think it might even be better for the child NOT to know him at all, than live with the fact that he has a father who abandoned him. That way, I have protected my son from further pain by not letting him know that he actually has a dead beat dad. It's just that I have this guilty feeling right now because I know I am about to cause my bf pain (and this may be more than the pain that he has ever caused me) -- and yes, it was somehow triggered by that post about forgiveness, because I admit that my main motivation in doing this is fairness and not forgiveness.

I feel that you have to try and give your ex the chance to be a father and if he does not want to do not force the issue.
My soon to be ex has the chance to see his two children every other Saturday and Sunday. He choose to only spend one day with them. I think it is to much work for him. Next weekend will be the first visit since January when I filed for divorce because he was cheating on me while I was pregnant that his parents will not be taking care of the children. Upto know his mom has done all of the feedings of our 5 month old, diaper changes of both the 5 month old and 2 year old. I do not know how he will handle the situation. The only good thing is he has to visit with the children where we live and I will be available if he needs help. Eventually your son or daughter will realize that the other parent is not the best parent and might even not want to see the him or her again.
Kim

At one point in time, I pondered this same thing. After much thinking about it, here is what I concluded.. If I keep her away from her father it's going to hurt her, no doubt about it. In the end, I will be the "bad guy" for not permitting her to have a relationship with him and she will never know the man he is. If I allow her to be in his life he may or may not succeed at having a healthy relationship with her. If he messes up, she will have been able to form her own opinion about him and i'll be here to help her through it. So, even though he had done me wrong over and over again, I put my feelings aside for her sake because I really believe that to be the best decision. If you feel your ex would do harm to your child or subject him to an unhealthy environment that is a different story. I do not believe in punnishing an ex by using your child under any other circumstance.

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Originally posted by astarte502:
At one point in time, I pondered this same thing. After much thinking about it, here is what I concluded.. If I keep her away from her father it's going to hurt her, no doubt about it. In the end, I will be the "bad guy" for not permitting her to have a relationship with him and she will never know the man he is. If I allow her to be in his life he may or may not succeed at having a healthy relationship with her. If he messes up, she will have been able to form her own opinion about him and i'll be here to help her through it. So, even though he had done me wrong over and over again, I put my feelings aside for her sake because I really believe that to be the best decision. If you feel your ex would do harm to your child or subject him to an unhealthy environment that is a different story. I do not believe in punnishing an ex by using your child under any other circumstance.

That's what I was thinking.... and you said it much better than i did. I think I'm caught up in my dumb EX syndrome.

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That way, I have protected my son from further pain by not letting him know that he actually has a dead beat dad. It's just that I have this guilty feeling right now because I know I am about to cause my bf pain

OK ladies gather up....
There is no right or wrong in this situation...let me explain..but first let me say that there is NOTHING and I mean NOTHING that will protect your child from that pain irregardless of what you do. Believe me, my mother tried everything and it failed. It failed so miserably it wasn't funny.

SECONDLY...NEVER and I mean NEVER make a decision out of HURT ANGER or FEAR. And that applies to anything you do be it at work, at home, on the street etc...Make your decision because it makes sense.

For ex: your idea of baby being adopted by parents in your name is LEGIT and LOGIC..it makes sense..that choice didn't come from an emotion, it came from planning.

Now, I am not saying to deny father of his rights, nor am I saying to not do it either because I completely understand your situation. There is no right or wrong.

The trick I use is to never make a decision out of anger, fear or hurt. That way...I know I am making a sound decision.

Some of you may have read about my past. Some of you not, so for those of you let me quickly explain. With that being said, please know that my mother GOD love her, did the best choice with the knowledge she had, in that year, and at that precise moment, with her anger, fear and hurt.

She decided she couldn't stand the idea of me ever feeling abandonned by my father. My father put certain conditions on my mother that she couldn't (i certainly don't blame her for those ones) accept, so as a result of not wanting those conditions for my best interest, my father chose not to have anything to do with us. So my mother told me my father had passed away. She said that because she knew based on the conditions he set out, he would NEVER be back. He never did come back. So all my life my mother thought she protected me from abaondonmnent...and made up some very nice stories about my dad that I would think he was a great daddy. The daddy of my dreams. Well all those years I felt abandonned ANYWAY.. why? cause I could not understand why MY daddy was taken away before I knew him.

So if daddy is not going to be there everyday, a child is still going to feel the pain and abandonnment and not understand...it will not matter what you do, the fact of the matter is, dadddy isn't there and that is all there is to it. That is all a child sees.

This was a prayer I used to say when I was little. This is just to show you what I personally went through because my dad was not there. By the way, he is alive but at the time this was my reality because I was told he passed away in a car accident.

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Dear Jesus,
I really need a daddy.Why did you take him away
My mom says he was such a nice man, please help me understand.Please send me a daddy cause my mom needs a man I hope it's okay with you daddy and that you will understand. Mommy yells alot and is always very mad. I never seem to do anything right, why can't I have a dad. I wish I had a picture to know who I look like, but what I want more is a dad that will be there to hold my hand.

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When I was 25 I met my father, and I am disappointed to say that my father is a coward...a true coward and I have absolutely no respect to say the least. When I met him, he gave me very similar conditions he gave my mother. I couldn't meet those conditions, so he left once again, and he left a beautiful grandson too. Boy was I angered when my son would ask, mom do you have a dad? He was too young to remember. I felt like saying the same story my mother made up, but chose not to. Finally I did understand why I didn't have a dad, but today, he once again chose not to have anything to do with my or my son.

Anyway I thought I would share that with you to show you that there is nothign you can do to protect a child from the abandonment of their mother or the abandonment of their father. THe only thing you can do is tell the truth when the child is ready to hear, never make choices based on emotions because it will not change a thing. The person who abandons is the weaker one because they made their own choice based on their emotion. Too bad for them. I am so not proud of my dad but he is who he is, and there is nothing I can do to change that.

I just dont understand that.

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THe only thing you can do is tell the truth when the child is ready to hear, never make choices based on emotions because it will not change a thing. The person who abandons is the weaker one because they made their own choice based on their emotion.

Thank you for saying that.

I watched my children's father pick them up a few hours ago, and he couldn't look me in the eye. Trying to keep it emotionless as possible. I think I vent on here dramatically, but that is not what the children see.

I know they are going to have a great time, and they will talk about it a lot and maybe many years afterwards.

There is so much "junk" I hear from gossip in my ex's life, I'm greatful he can keep it away from the boys and enjoy the 2 weeks.

You're right, everyone's circumstances are different even though the pain feels the same, whether secret or flat out on the table.

Tessmit...your a smart woman...i'm glad you came to making some decisions that were very difficult to make. Let us know how the visit goes when they come back.

Dawn....wake up...i wanna know what your thinking.

Singleparentcoach I think you are right in what you are saying about never making decisions out of hurt, fear or anger. That they child will eventually realize it was the other parent who abandoned him or her.

I had to fight for child support in March. He said paying the mortage on the house we were selling was his child support. He was the one cheating while I was pregnant.

He also drives recklessly. I do have concerns for my childrens safety and seeing as how during the only time he saw our two children by himself. One was crying so hard she ended up throwing up all of the bottle he fed her. The other one was rocking herself to sleep and watching the same video I had put on for her before I left. She also had a very dirty diaper. My mother was right downstairs but because he did not feel he needed help. He never asked for help.

I keep a record of all are conversations and everything that happens during vistation because my lawyer told me to. She says if he does want to change how visitations happen he will have to take it back to court. Especially because his parents have been doing all of the care everything during visits.

I am hoping that some day his children will see him for what he real is but until then I am doing my best to allow them to have a realtionship with him.
Kim

Hi Kim,
It is tremendously difficult what your going through, of course that goes to all the other single parents here.

If safety is an issue dont hesitate to put your foot down, that's for sure.

Your children will see their dad for who he is, no worries about that, that's for sure.

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I had to fight for child support in March. He said paying the mortage on the house we were selling was his child support. He was the one cheating while I was pregnant.

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OBviously he made a life choice, out of anger...we all do it, but when the kids are concerned people should have more intelligence than that. Sadly they don't. He obviously made some bad choices for his life...for you, you can eventually move on, the kids will also, but it will take time.

GOOD MORNING ladies and gents... I am awake. Thanks for all the replies while I was sleeping on my side of the earth. my thoughts on this...

I think Miranda is right that I cannot really fully protect my son from the painful truth... I just want to minimize the effects of it, therefore the adoption option. I have had friends who are illegitimate children who grew either under a single parent or with their relatives; and I also have friends who are adopted children with full knowledge that they are adopted, and grew in a home where there is mother and father together. The adopted children were better off than the illegitimate ones. They were more self-confident, and they had higher self-esteem. Illegitimate children I know actually HATE their parents and they keep on saying how come their parents committed an act that they were not ready to take responsibility for.

Now I don't want my son hating me and his father... therefore I came up with the idea of the adoption. I want the assurance that he will grow in an environment where there is both mother and father TOGETHER during his formative years, aside from the fact that he can enjoy rights of a legitimate child. But I will still be the child's guardian so I can still make decisions on his life.

One of the reasons why I want to keep the father away from the son for a while is because this guy is a bit selfish... he's been obsessed in having a son from the beginning, though he's avoiding the responsibilities now. I just want him to learn the hard lesson that he cannot reap the benefits without the cost. I'm not sure if what I'm doing is based on anger or hurt or fear... I have a hard time sorting out my emotions. I guess I just want to teach the guy a lesson, that's it. The lesson is not life-long by the way, lets just say I'm just placing him on a "prob