Robin,

A lawyer would know exactly who the child should sue...in this particular case if the children do not want to go back home and are scared, the kids have RIGHTS...this pisses me off...

I am not upset with you so pardon my tone...

But yes there are case histories that children can take their parents to court, and appeal to the courts...if the children got their own representation not sure what the laws are in your state but in Canada, if children actually see a lawyer on something like this, they can have legal representation. The lawyer would best advise which route to go to. Unfortunately I am not as familiar with law as I once was when I studied legal secretarial and law enforcement as now laws have changed.

But I know that they can do that. I heard of kids sueing their parents for divorce...and I know there has been cases children can sue for their safety.....

Now providing they can find a lawyer taht is gutsy enough, a good fighter and who is looking to advance their career.

Now, the other problem with this is the kids live in fear. This means that them taking the initiative to actually get themselves a lwayer will probably not happen because of exactly that ..>FEAR

Without adequate protection during the process and proper accomodations during the process they may not want to do that. children who fear their parents to this degree, not only fear their lives should they do something like this even if they know what is happening to them is wrong, they learn how to live just enough to protect themselves and this unfortunatley means, listening to the abuser....it is a survival stategy, one that we all know harms them in the long wrong and in some cases, in the short term (where the worst can happen, death/murder or suicide)

The worst in all of this, is the judge has basically told the kids indirectly that their parents are right for doing what they are doing which goes against all the efforts we as parents teach our kids in school that abuse is wrong and stand up kid to say "no" cause it is wrong.

Then the system fails them.

What bull ****.

Oh but I also do know that when the kids are older and in their adult years when they see how much they have been damaged by this when they do go see a psychotherapist for this later for whatever reason and they realize that all their issues stem from their upbringing, the state can have a huge lawsuit because all the evidence were brought to the table and their rights were not protected.

I wonder if a third party can sue on the child's behalf.

I heard of that in a workplace for sexual harrassment. There was a third party lawsuit for this in Canada.

There has to be something I am sure...a loophole or something they have missed that can actually change the outcome of this.

I should have been a lawyer.

we do have something like that for kids, its called a GAL (Guardian ad litem), they only take the childs interest to heart not the parents. Either parent can request a GAL in court, but you better be honist with yourself, because a GAL is only for the child. If you are messed up in some way it will come out.
http://www.guardianadlitem.org/

The children do have a GAL and I have read that they have asked the magistrate hear the chuildren... This is when the magistrate made the comment that I quoted... Their attorney [GAL] has fought for the children, I tink as best they can... They have made it known that the offending party be accountable for not completing their tasks. Additionally has asked the courts to close the case with a no-contact in place with the offending parent...
The offending parent's attorney then stated ' if the courts do close the case with out contact to his client -they attorney and offending parent] would bring the non-offending parent to family court for custody of the children.

This maybe a reason for the magistarte choices/order, I dont know...

I dont know cause I am not knowlegable on all legal options, and each cause and effect of them...

The children do have a case worker, and has made the same staements as the children attorney [GAL].

To my understanding, no cases [sueing] can be heard till the dependancy courts are done with the children...


FYI - The offending parent has a paid attorney.
- The non-offending parent has an appionted one.
- the children are in the non-offending parents custody with state protection on going to keep all safe and striegthen.

Thanks for helping me brainstorn in which to empower the [non-offending] parent to help protect the children ...

I think somewhere in there , that there is an age where the child has the right to say they don't want to see the offending party. Do you know what age that is in your state?

Push come to shove, I believe all things are possible and the end result they desire can occur. It is knowing the legal system by the back of one's hand that one can use it to their advantage and rightly so..the problem is I am not a big help because I don't know what they are. The children will need a resourceful lawyer that doesn't take no for an answer.

Since there is a judge that oversees this magistrate, I would definitely try that route. Typically you would contact that judge's clerk for answers on how to address that judge about this.
My opinion on what's going on....something I've seen way too many times.....a very large amount of cases are decided in the backrooms/judge's chambers with the court room being just a formality for the decisions already being made. The good old boy network, high paid well known lawyer that is friends with the judges/magistrates have way more pull than the system should allow. Particularly in cases like this where there isn't a trial, no unbiased jurors to decide....

Also, how true is this???? While searching around, I read that in Florida there are NO recorded decisions to completely deny visitation rights to a parent, even in cases of abuse that the worst that has happened is ordered supervised visitation. Can that really be correct?

This is what worries me...
That it seems this case seem to be heading in a supervisory setting with the child conclor, now since the offending parent wants to cover themself, this offending parent want to have his personal theropist there or have the sessions video taped.

Why, well the childrens theropist staes that their should be an apology session. Nt that this is for the offending parent but for the continue theropy to help empower the children. Not that this would be to contiue with the offending parent.

But as I see it the offending parent wants to use this session to ask for visitaion. This apolgy session, again to help with the recover of the children only, with a no gareentee that there will be others.

This [apology session ] was ordered in November way before the Jan. 07 deadline. Again Jan. 07 all task and reconmindations were to be complete. Jan 07 came and the offending parent stated due to holidays he could not find the time... so this session was extended to April 07. When they returned to court it was found out that the offending party had stopped paying the children theropist and the offending party never got ahold of theriopist to make arrangemts of payment.

So then the excuse was... The children thropist is bais against him due to no payment... and wanted his therapist to be in the session...

then in may when that did not happen it was asked for the session to be video taped...

So the threopist made it known many times, by faxes and letter that he would continue to see the children pro bono [free] till the offending parent make arrangments for the past bills going back to june of 06 with the new bill to be dicussed.

Mean time the offending parent has paid his theropist and attorney, and has NOT paid the full child entitalments of support or the children therapist... go figure...

So latest is... the offending parent now has till Aug 07 to have this appolgy session... with out the offending parents therapist or being video taped in the session. Additionally, has asked that the children be taken out of their therapist care and find another one... that has been denied as of this writing, but the magistrate had made a statement that that idea maybe intertained if this session does not work out...

Work out being, a beginning to reconsiliation...
I haven seen this latest oder as of this writings.
So I only have hearsay to the lastest events at this time.

You talk about a game this offending parent is playing... making this about itself, not the children.

quote:

Also, how true is this???? While searching around, I read that in Florida there are NO recorded decisions to completely deny visitation rights to a parent, even in cases of abuse that the worst that has happened is ordered supervised visitation. Can that really be correct?

I dont know?
But I would hope that this is NOT true.
Anyone have input to this?

Singleparentcoach wrote

quote:

Do you know what age that is in your state?

The age of input from children is 12 I think, and desition to not see a parent is 15.

I am aware that at the age of 15 a child can get married in florida, work and can drive a car with a permit.

But this case does not seem to be following standard policy and laws per-say.

That so does not rock with me...any more development on that by the way?

quote:

Originally posted by BASICALLYAMY:
Has anybody requested a guardian ad lidum for the children?

Yes, Robin stated above they already have a GAL

What is the difference between a GAL and the kids getting their own lawyer? I have never heard of a GAL

It's kind of/sort of the same thing, although a GAL might not be a licensed attorney. They are appointed by the court to act on behalf of/represent the children, with no special consideration to either parent. When there is disagreement between parents concerning the children in a legal case, the GAL will represent the children's "best interest" in helping to determine the best outcome of the case in question, at least in theory.

quote:

Originally posted by Robin:
Maybe you can write out what you did in detail, step by step, So that I can benchmark your actions to lay out a plan for the non offending parent. Thank in advance... if you choose to...

It's been a while since I had to do this so I can't go step by step, and in truth I don't recall there being that many. What I had in mind was two fold:
One, you contacting a local or even federal representative and basically letting them know the legal system is broken, your kids are getting beaten, even after you have jumped through all the legal hoops like a good girl.
Two, take a look at some of the local media, newspaper or tv, and see if you can find a reporter or editor who covers these kind of issue consistantly. This kind of story is meat and potatoes for those people, they'll eat it up. And, let them know you've been in touch with the Rep or Senator or whatever you called.
All of that might unclog the system and get things running.

So Here is the update on My Story...

Thanks everyone for the advice and suggestions.

======

The children do have a guardian ad lithium, not a volunteer but a coordinator. They are repro by an attorney in the courts, and both the GAL and Case worker have stated numerous times in all there reports, there should be no contact and close this case.

This magistrate is not listening to them, in fact she has not only keep this case opened for over 12 months and yes Fla law states that this type of case can only be opened for twelve months unless the magistrate deems necessary to keep it open for unforeseen reasonable excuse.

Well I don’t think personally that the offending party using the excuse that from nov to Jan it was holiday and could not do the recommended Apology session - is a viable excuse... How about you all?

The children were able to go to the therapy sessions through out this -so-called - holiday time... Where was this offending party???

B.S is all I can say... Any else has some input???

I feel this is against the civil right of the victims to have due process. Let see, the offending party was virtually convicted of felony child abuse with a max of five year.
That IS the maximum amount of time allocated to a person that beats their child like an UnWanted Dog….

SOooo, Why do I say virtually, cause the offending party plead the fifth thus was given a ‘Plea Adjudication”

So to the Very NOW in this “Vortex of ****” The children was given an Order from the magistatre that along with this apology session there are to be a minimum of five session with the offending party.. Go ahead and gasp NOW as did ALL the parties that are representing the children… with the added comments from them… I’ve never seen her [ this magistrate] behave like this…

I am Now aurguing with all parties to ask for her to request a “Recuse” for being “unfair and impartial” and yes I have discovered that’s to all here that the Bar will and can do an ethical investigation…

The children have been going to these mandated sessions with the virtual convicted child abuse felon with their therapist and the offending partys threopist. HAHAHA

So you may be asking why does the offending party have a therapist, - it is in It’s criminal conviction order to have a psychological health evaluation done. Now why would the criminal court order that - Here’s the kicker – He is still denying that he has hurt the kids and that this is all made up by the Ex. As [this parent] denies this, the officials are looking at the photos of a child who has stick lines all over his body.

Why stick lines, you see, it was the stick used for opening and closing the blinds. The offending parent beat the child with this stick for the blinds as the child layed in a fetal position on the floor all the while begging for this SO-Called Parent to “PLEASE STOP!” The offending parent does finally stop to order the child at age 13 to go do something upstairs now… as an obedient child will he gets up and climes up the stairs only to get hit with the stick again from behind. All the while the child as asking , begging for this parent to stop and the offending parent hits harder and child then turn to go down the stair without a word and heads for the door with the following offending parent bellowing “where do YOU think you going?” The child state I’m leaving and if you keep hitting me Ill call the cops.

With that, This 6 foot two ex-marine put this 4 foot 13 year old child in a half nelson and Bellows “you don’t leave until I tell you!”

The child scared become the obedient child and follow orders. It is not till the next day this bright, caring and friendly child gets to middle school does his girlfriend try to hug him and he backs away in pain and shows the girl friend what has happen, who in turn, Tells on this offending parent to the school administration, who takes the child out of class to see for them selves.

Then the nightmare with the courts begin, to have it be, now, 19 months later to have the children sitting in a room with this offending [parent?].

Who is trying in enticing all the kids with BUNNIES, I have bunnies. This is NOW a joke in my home with comments from them like “ Come here little boys, I have bunnies to show you” in a stranger danger voice. At least they can laugh about it now. One of the kids have asked the offending parent for picture of the bunnies, I don’t dear say what they have in mind to do with that picture If they do get one.

This is just a cruel, and unjust joke and victims.

I can say only one thing ‘Vortex of ****” on earth for my children.

Court again in a week about all this. Lets see what with so-call “enforcer of JUSTICE” can wheeled on the victims again… In which to train these kids to grow up and be victims and make victims of others, know NOW that there is NO real consequences to these type of behavior.

I request here from all, if you go to church Please pray for these kids. And if you don’t go or never have then Please go and “shock the **** out of the Main Big Guy and take a notice to these kids…

They need some REAL help here.


Thank in advance to you support.

I'm posting a link as discussed in chat today regarding a story on domestic violence.

It's a story about an abused mother and her story about how she escaped the abuse. Prosecutors had difficulty prosecuting even with tapped evidence of the abuse in front of children.


Behind closed doors