I was originally going to ask if anyone thought I'd find a lawyer out there to draft something up to the effect of what I'm looking for. Then I realized that, DUH!, that's not my problem. My problem would be if a judge would ever agree to it.

Here's what I'm looking to do, I know custody/visitation & child support are two totally different things here in NY. At the present time there is a custody order in effect for my son stating that I have sole physical & legal custody with my ex (never married) having visitation "as agreed upon". The child support order is a measley amount that is NOT the correct amount according to state guidelines and is an amount I was pressured into agreeing to.

Currently my ex sends a check for $300 each month (a different amount that we agreed to that is closer to the actual amount he SHOULD be paying) and hasn't seen my son since Feb 2008. He has not even asked about how my son is doing since at least April 2008 and I honestly think it was more like Feb or March. He has only seen him a handful of times when I brought my son out to see him (he lives in MI) and only for a VERY brief amount of time (1 hour tops) during those weekends.

I want to see what you all think about having the custody/visitation order changed for one. Do you think a judge would agree to modify it to state no visitation as this clearly isn't something he's interested in pursuing anyway? My biggest issue is that the way things are worded technically he could take my son and I would have a hard time (according to one lawyer) of arguing that it wasn't "agreed upon." Or would I be best to just leave things the way they are so that he doesn't try and get more visitation ordered?

As far as child support including in this goes, if it came down to it do you think there would be anyway to get something legally binding stating that I agree to not collect support if he'll agree to stay out of my son's life forever?

A little background on why I do not want this man around my son...because I know it'll be asked...he is nothing but a compulsive liar for starters. He has lied to me, my son, the mediators when we made our custody/support agreements, etc., for the last 9 years. He obviously wants nothing to do with my son, I have never once stopped him from seeing him or anything like that prior to asking about this he CHOOSES not to.

Any other questions anyone might have, please feel free to ask. I'm just really really worried about my son's safety here as far as the current wording on our visitation agreement goes.

I know in Alabama you cannot get an order with a "deal" for no child support in exchange for staying out of the picture. The state considers that money to be for the benefit of the child and you can't "decline" it. Also, here there has to be a significant change in circumstance before a judge will revisit an order. A change in income, the child being in an unsafe environment with one parent or the other, etc.

What is the likelihood of him "abusing" the vague order? I guess I don't fully understand why you want it modified. Well, I guess I do, you want the security of an order instead of having to rely what is "agreed upon". I have not heard of visitation being totally denied. My ex is only entitled to supervised visitation, which he doesn't use. I was able to obtain this because,1) he put my child in a dangerous situation, 2) he had no driver's license and a warrant out for his arrest, and 3) he didn't show up for court. It is worded that he is to have supervised visitation until such time as he can pass a drug test and provide a safe visitation environment.

Sorry for rambling, I don't know if this is helpful at all. All I know is my case and my state. Hopefully Law Student Lisa, or someone wih more knowledge than me will chime in. Good luck to you!!!

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As far as child support including in this goes, if it came down to it do you think there would be anyway to get something legally binding stating that I agree to not collect support if he'll agree to stay out of my son's life forever?

--This is not legal. This type of offer is like offering a bribe. The only way to do something close is to have his parental rights terminated.

As for the custody matter, you have sole physical custody. "Agreed upon" is an ambiguous term. But if he did see the child, and you changed your mind, there is no longer an agreement. Absent abuse or threats, I do not see a judge ordering no visitation. I could be wrong, but I just don't see it. The easiest way to end run the situation is to just not agree to allow him to see your child.

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Originally posted by Law Student Lisa:
The easiest way to end run the situation is to just not agree to allow him to see your child.

I guess what worries me the most about it is that he could come take my child (which I have made sure that everywhere I can think of where he might be knows to not let him take N) and then try to say that we agreed that he could have him, when in reality I wouldn't have. Am I making sense?

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Originally posted by Law Student Lisa:
The only way to do something close is to have his parental rights terminated.

Almost forgot, does anyone know if this is even an option in NY? All I can find is things about terminating parental rights when children are taken in by the state.

I don't know about NY, but here it is extremely difficult hsve a parent's rights terminated.

I'm ASSuming that's how it is here too as it makes sense to be that way with the potential for the state to feel like it would be up to them to support children more readily if there isn't another parent to collect support from.

You would need to look up the New York statutes. Most states have these online. In Oregon, terminating parental rights can only be accomplished to free the child up for adoption. Other jurisdictions are different.

If he did take your child, the thing is that you have sole physical custody. He would have to return the child because it would become custodial interference. If he took your child over statelines, it would be kidnapping---even if he is the other parent.

I agree that the "agreed upon" is too vague. But I think the lawyer you consulted was wrong, and I would think about consulting another one. Great latitude is given to the custodial parent.

Is there a reason that you think you ex would take off with your child? Has he made any threats? If so, that is grounds right there for a modification of visitation.

If he did take off with the child, you would call the police and produce your order. They may make you go to the court and file what is called a "writ of assitance." This is an order that the police would take with them, similar to a search warrent, that gives them legal authority to intervene within a domestic situation. But depending upon the jursidiction, you might not even need that, simply because as the custodial parent, you can say I did not agree to this. And if the child was taken from the places that you have warned, it would be easy enough for a witness to say that you never gave permission.

I understand your fear completely. I lived/and still do to some extent, with the exact same fear for years. I have personally come to the conclusion that a man that cannot be bothered to visit or talk to his child, is not going to go out of his way or to the trouble or effort to take a child. Too much work.

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Originally posted by Law Student Lisa:
Is there a reason that you think you ex would take off with your child? Has he made any threats? If so, that is grounds right there for a modification of visitation.

No, he hasn't made any threats, but at this point after 9 years of nothing but lies I wouldn't put it past him to try something like that.

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I have personally come to the conclusion that a man that cannot be bothered to visit or talk to his child, is not going to go out of his way or to the trouble or effort to take a child. Too much work.

Honestly, I know that this is the place that I need to get myself to also. In my mind I know that he couldn't be bothered to see my son more than a handful of times the past 6 years and only when *I* took it upon myself to bring him to MI and for brief amounts of time at that and has NEVER picked up the phone and called him so that combined with living 8+ hours away makes it a pretty safe bet he wouldn't try something. It's convincing my heart that wants to just protect my son and do what's best for him that needs reconciliation with my mind.

Thank you for all the great info!!!! Ever since that meeting with the lawyer 2 years ago I have been picturing all these scenarios where I was just fighting tooth & nail with no response at all to prove that I didn't agree. I know the wording itself is too vague and we probably should've agreed to something else with the mediator but I *know* my ex saw it as a way to not be "responsible" for seeing him on any bit of a regular schedule. That was the only wording that we could come up with that basically accomplished the same thing as saying "no visitation" while getting a judge to agree to it. I now wonder what would've been said by that judge if we had requested it to be worded that way.