quote:

Originally posted by binarian:
We'll just get Old Testament on him.

LMAO Bin!! nice one HAHAHA

Why thank you, young lady.

Paul sounds practically Jesuitical, doesn't he?

Personally, I have always thought the Old Testament was, in addition to being a guide for person to person behavior, a ground work for a basic societal structure. Rampant lieing, cheating, stealing and adultery practically guarentee the breakup of any group of humans. Never mind murdering.

So God looks at Israel and says "Hmmmm, so far so good. Now for the next step, CIVIL society. But how? I've GOT it! I'll send Junior! He's good with people. Never got along with the whole smiting thing either. Compationate, tolerent and loving; he can impart those qualities to humans. Good plan...Oh, Jesus!...got a minute?."

Wow, that's a nice way of looking at it. LOL, that means Israel wasn't part of civil society then?? well, the Romans tried to civilize them but seems like the Romans were more barbaric than the Israelites. So Jesus came and dealt with the "heart" of the matter.

LOL I never thought about Paul sounding Jesuitical... while I like the radical thinking of these Jesuits, I had bad experiences with them. LOL, I'm not going to elaborate.

Well I don't get it.

quote:

Thanks B's Momma and normajean for your inputs. Actually my desire is really for my ex to realize the wrong he has done -- and I know for a fact that the only way he can realize this is if he faces some kind of consequence or punishment (like an ED or something, LMAO).

quote:

Let me tell you Dawn, I have a father just like your ex. And I regret to say that he now in his late sixties most likely has never realized the wrong that he did. Nor did he face any kind of consequence or punishment. He paid zero dollars to my mother for child support. As a matter of fact I have the court documents that showed how much he was suppose to pay and he didn't show up. He left the province at the time, and back then no one was able to hold back his checks. I would like to see him realize his wrong doings. But I doubt I will.

I think it taught me a lesson though, and I know the bible says something different than what I feel, like forgive and all that, but I believe to me it represents standing up for what you believe in. If I could, I would personally go after my own father for the lack of financial support, but I doubt the law would be on my side. If I could, I would cause so far, I don't think he was punished for his actions nor was he consequenced. Sometimes I believe us humans have to make some decisions, cause so far, I am 36 years old, and he did not once, NOT once own up to his responsibility. As a matter of fact, my son asked me yesterday where my father was and if he could call him sometime. Hmmm...told him not to bother.

quote:

Originally posted by Dawn Butterfly:
Wow, that's a nice way of looking at it. LOL, that means Israel wasn't part of civil society then?? well, the Romans tried to civilize them but seems like the Romans were more barbaric than the Israelites. So Jesus came and dealt with the "heart" of the matter.

LOL I never thought about Paul sounding Jesuitical... while I like the radical thinking of these Jesuits, I had bad experiences with them. LOL, I'm not going to elaborate.

You are CORRECT Dawn, the Israelites, Jesuits, Romans, Greeks, etc...none were as you put "civilized" except in the context of society...and loosely at that. If you take a close look at the chosen prophets and "spokemen" for God....You see that they were from various parts...not necessariy races.

The act of covering for sin or "sacrificial covering" was brought about as a way to restore "man" from the fall from God in the Garden. Man had always had free will to commune with God or not...as he does to this day.

The idea of creating a "once and for all" sacrifice was, hence the "personage" of messiah or Jesus Christ was a sacrifice on the part of God to bring "mankind" closer to himself without having to forego the rituals of "sacrifice". Everything that could be done to restore Man to relation with God was done through the personage of Jesus Christ.

Dang I'm starting to feel like Billy Graham....Jeez.

Please be sure to NOT take my word on what I'm saying and always research for yourself whether what I am saying is accurate or not. I'm doing my best to state written fact as I have studied over a lifetime...literally.

Opinion: The idea of forgiving and forgetting is also incorrect, to my knowledge since the only time that is mention is when the subject of having our sins forgiven by God is mentioned. In that the word says:

I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, And I will not
remember your sins. Is. 43:25

The reason being if God remembered our sins, God could not have anything to do with us, as "Light hath NO fellowship with darkness".

We are nowhere in the Bible commanded to "forget" another sins, only to "forgive" sins as in the case here: Ephesians 4:31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage, anger, harsh words, and slander, as well as all types of evil behavior. 32 Instead, be kind to each other, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God through Christ has forgiven you.


No where that "I" have found does it say to restore you previous relationship with someone who has wronged you. You may call that a technicality......I call it smart.

quote:

Originally posted by Singleparentcoach:
I think it taught me a lesson though, and I know the bible says something different than what I feel, like forgive and all that, but I believe to me it represents standing up for what you believe in. If I could, I would personally go after my own father for the lack of financial support, but I doubt the law would be on my side. If I could, I would cause so far, I don't think he was punished for his actions nor was he consequenced. Sometimes I believe us humans have to make some decisions, cause so far, I am 36 years old, and he did not once, NOT once own up to his responsibility.

Well, I saw a passage in the Bible that says about approaching someone who sinned against you:

"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

I'm trying to reconcile this with the passages of forgiveness...

quote:

Originally posted by Dawn Butterfly:

quote:

Originally posted by Singleparentcoach:
I think it taught me a lesson though, and I know the bible says something different than what I feel, like forgive and all that, but I believe to me it represents standing up for what you believe in. If I could, I would personally go after my own father for the lack of financial support, but I doubt the law would be on my side. If I could, I would cause so far, I don't think he was punished for his actions nor was he consequenced. Sometimes I believe us humans have to make some decisions, cause so far, I am 36 years old, and he did not once, NOT once own up to his responsibility.

Well, I saw a passage in the Bible that says about approaching someone who sinned against you:

"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

I'm trying to reconcile this with the passages of forgiveness...

That passage speaks mainly to pointing out the sin in someone else's life. The idea of confronting someone regarding a sin, and forgiveness for sin are 2 separate ideas.

I know people and actually have been part of a group that have put that kind of passage / idea...into action. It has more merit that would seem on the surface. It's where the idea of an intervention came from.

quote:

Originally posted by Dawn Butterfly:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Singleparentcoach:
I think it taught me a lesson though, and I know the bible says something different than what I feel, like forgive and all that, but I believe to me it represents standing up for what you believe in. If I could, I would personally go after my own father for the lack of financial support, but I doubt the law would be on my side. If I could, I would cause so far, I don't think he was punished for his actions nor was he consequenced. Sometimes I believe us humans have to make some decisions, cause so far, I am 36 years old, and he did not once, NOT once own up to his responsibility.

Well, I saw a passage in the Bible that says about approaching someone who sinned against you:

"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one o

Here's another passage I'm trying to reconcile with the passages on forgiveness...

Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." (John 20:21-23)

quote:

Originally posted by paulj_in_phx:
Dang I'm starting to feel like Billy Graham....Jeez.

LOL, not really... more like C.S. Lewis LOL

quote:

Originally posted by Singleparentcoach:
Well I don't get it.

Get what? If you're talking about the Jesuit thing, well their a bunch of radical-thinking priests whom my ex approaches for advice. Now look what it has done to me. LOL...

quote:

Originally posted by Dawn Butterfly:
Here's another passage I'm trying to reconcile with the passages on forgiveness...

Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." (John 20:21-23)

Well this was after Jesus had appeared to the disciples after he had risen from the grave. This was more a "religious charge" or "christening" or "assignment of duties". Basically he was giving them the "right" to continue on as his disciples. Also...this is an interpretation of this passage.

WOW Paul are you the apostle? LOL... Did you take some Biblical studies units or some hermeneutics course? I like the way you interpret passages within their context.

I was raised on the 3rd row of a Pentencostal "fire and brimstone" church! LOL

Because of the fact that so much taught seemed to contradict itself, I studied for myself to find the truth. Unfortunately when you do that, you begin to realize HOW MANY leaders actually distort truth to "lead" their flocks.

Dont get me wrong, there are some AWESOME men of God out there! But you dont see them that often. There are STILL very uncommon, as they should be:
Deut: 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all peoples that are upon the face of the earth.

As far as being in context, if you take the various passages OUT OF context, you can make them say whatever you wish.

You must always interepret, within the context.

Even the Devil USED the Bible for his own puproses, ....but of course, incorrectly:

The devil next took Jesus up onto a high pillar in the temple. He said, "IF you be the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written, 'He shall give His angels charge concerning you: so that you won't so much as kick your toe against a rock.'"

Realizing that Satan had twisted the scripture, and that what he wanted Jesus to do was wrong, Jesus told him, "It is also written, 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God.'"

Then Satan took Jesus up onto a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and the greatness of them.

"I will give you all these kingdoms, if you fall down and worship me!" the devil told Jesus.
II Cor. 4:4