The mother of my 1 and a half month old daughter is receiving public assistance in New York State, while living with family members. We've established paternity privately but right now I'm "in the shadows" so to speak, meaning I'm not on the birth certificate, etc.

From what I understand, if a woman with child is receiving public assistance / welfare she must assign her child support rights to the state. What this does is cause a dillema for myself. The ex and myself are being very civil, and she allows me frequent visitation with my daughter, but of course the question of money has come up. The money isn't the problem, I can afford my daughter, the problem is the ex's involvement with the welfare. She's under the impression that I should give her a monthly payment "under the table" with public assistance unaware of whats going on. I'm not inclined to do so, because I am currently accumulating debt with the state every day that passes. If I give her $500 a month for my daughter I will still owe $500 towards welfare reimbursment/state. I feel as though I'm going to eventually end up paying twice because any money I give her now will not count towards arrears. The money I am obligated to support her with really belongs to the state.


Am I right about the paying twice assumption?

Has anyone had a similar experience, or dealt with child support through public assistance before?

I've tried explaining this to the ex but she thinks I'm just trying to weasel my way out of paying.

I don't live in new york so I can't tell you for sure but I know in minnesota that if you are on assistants you have to file for child support through the state and so if you give her cash you should document it so they don't go back and charge you for back pay. If she is trying to lie to the system that's wrong. there are a lot of women (and men) out there really trying to survive on what they can. I don't think it would be right for you to pay twice. Just wait untill there is an order and if you don't feel like it's enough then pay more but document everything just to cover your but..

I'm not sure if this helps but I hope so.

Good luck and go with your gut!

quote:

so if you give her cash you should document it so they don't go back and charge you for back pay....

My problem is that if I do give her money now, which I really want to do, the state wont consider it towards arrears no matter how well I document, because it's going to her instead of reimbursing them for the tax payers dollars that they're spending on her. I may be liable of commiting welfare fraud by bypassing the states right to her child support. She would in turn be commiting fraud by wilfully receiving money from myself, money which she assigned to the state.

I haven't really been on cash assistants that much but the few months I was they never took my child support. I still got the total sum. so I guess I don't know.

If you want to contribute to your daughter you can buy her stuff like diapers, clothes, or other baby needs. that way you are helping out but are not giving her cash. Just an idea.

Another parent on this site, I don't remember which, gave the mom money and the state considered it a 'gift' and did not count it towards the amount owed for CS. I would not give her any money or supplies until I took basicallyamy's advice and talk to the case worker.

IMO, get on it right away. The longer you wait, the harder it will be. If you and your ex are civil now, there's no reason why you can't be just because the state is involved. I agree with BAmy "cover you own a$$"

You also need to keep in mind that the two of you are being civil......for now......things can happen, and should that "civilness" ever come to an end, I can assure you that you would wish that you were doing everything legally and legitly. If I were you, I would also try to find someway to get "legally binding" visitation. Like I said....things are fine now, but you never know what lies in the not so distant future.

-J

I agree with what everyone else has said that you need to document everything. I also think you need to maybe talk to her worker or someone who knows what she is receiving for assistance and explain that you want to give her something to take care of your daughter and how you would go about doing that so you do not end up paying more in the end.

Any money you give to her is considered a "Gift", and will NOT be acknowledged by any court, or CS agent as payment towds Child support.
She can't have her cake and eat it too, not to mention that by you allowing her to dupe the system you are aiding her in defrauding the state.
If you don't have an issue with money offer to purchase the things the child needs and no exchange of money. If the state is paying her why should you pay her thru any other means than thru the CS agency-just for your own records, so you have documentation that you supported/are supporting your child.If she is willing to risk jail and rip the state off, who's to say she won't rip you off too and file CS later on?

I live in New York State and what she is trying to do is illegal. And let me tell you, NYS social services does not mess around. She is to turn any money over to the state that you or any other person gives her even if it is a gift. Your support will go directly to the state and she will get a $50 a month pass-thru payment. If she was on medicaid you are already responsible for alot of money. They will take you to court and sue you for the cost of the birth. My ex had to pay approx. 4,500. They also will make you pay half or all of any future medical payments for the child. You will need to get your own Lawyer for a visitation schedule. They do not care about visitation-they only want their money. If I were you I would hire a lawyer an get the visitation and support order in place as soon as possible. Also if you owe more than $2000 in arrears for medical bills and support, they take your taxes.

pann71, I'm assuming you've had personal experience with public assistance child support, so if I'm not being too intrusive can you elaborate on how things worked for you.

I already have a lawyer aware of the situation, we've been having brief consultations over the past two months and now it seems as though I have to retain him. My ex refused to give me any information on who her social workers are and is totally against me legally establishing myself as the child's father, because in more ways than one it's inconvenient for her. It's obvious what she's tring to do. She's basically told me I have to do all this with out her working with me. I'm going to contact social services tomorrow.

You say the state will sue me for the birth costs and medical expenses (the ex is receiving medicaid, and my daughter is on it as well) which I'd already anticipated so it's really no shock at this point. If I'm there, working with the state they would still sue me?

In determing my monthly obligation, I'm assuming they take into consideration her 0 income, because she doesn't work. Do they even use the standard formula( i.e 17% for one child, etc.) or do they base my obligation on what she claims she needs, or something else?

I had a very bad experience with social services. But that is a long story that does not have to do with what they will make you pay. I was on Medicaid when my child was born-because my boyfriend and I were not married they took him to court and made him pay 100% of the birth fees, about 4,500. I even went to court with him and told the judge that he was there for his son and was helping to support him-it did not matter--to this day they still take money out of his check every week. My son remained on Medicaid for only one year-and I only brought him to the emergency room once during that year--they made him pay the whole $650 bill- in fact when he stopped working for six months they suspended his drivers license. Just to let you know, other than medicaid and daycare services I never received a dime from public assistance-I went back to work when my son was 2 weeks old (only 2 days waitressing) so that I would not have to take money from them. My ex and I were so fed up with the system--I do not think it is right that they soley sue the father for repayment of the birth-I made this child too. Plus, we were living together at the time, so this was money being taken away from my son. We also never went for child support through social services because they did not give me public assistance--but it is actually worse for you that she is not working because they want to recoup all the money they are paying out to her and the baby--from you. They will most likely only take 17% plus daycare costs (which you don't have, yet). It does work more for your benefit if you contact social services-then you do not look like a dead beat dad. If you want to give your baby anything in the meantime--buy her diapers, clothes, formula-little things that show you are thinking of her welfare--it will also show the judge that you are trying to be responsible--bring all receipts to court with you. Good Luck and congrats on your new daughter.

I can tell you about Oklahoma laws, but don't know much about NY. Here, if the mother is on TANF (cash assistance) the state will take every dime they get from you in child support and not give her more than the allotted monthly cash pymt, even if it's 1/3 of what they collect in child support.

In Oklahoma, she can be on food stamps without going after you for child support, but if the child is on medicaid or receiving TANF, and I think daycare, they will come after you.

You said you had paternity established privately, was it filed with the court? If you're not listed legally as the father they cannot come after you for support until that is done.