Hi there!
Brand new to this site (came looking for advice) and I'm glad I stumbled across it - I think I'm really going to like it here. It's funny how married friends and family just don't seem to be able to grasp some of the things that we experience as single parents.
With that said, I'll make my introduction brief and get to my question. I'm 36, have 2 girls ages 14 & 12, was married 7 years and divorced now for 8 years. My X-husband is great - he's a good father and will do anything for his girls, he and I are very civil - we just can't live together.
Anyways, now that I've told you he's a good father, the question I have is in relation to my kids who no longer want to live with him. They hate going to his house (currently we split the week in half). There are many reasons for this - all pretty good ones, but I'm not sure how to have this type of conversation with him to tell him this. The girls are afraid to tell him on their own cause they don't think he'll understand and get mad, and I'm not sure how to approach this either. Their main complaint is that even though he's a good father - he doesn't spend time with them like I do. He's always either playing computer games, watching sports, or napping (part of the reason we're not married anymore). Where as I watch movies with them, play games, have sit down "chit-chats" alot and they like that. Also they share a small room there and have seperate ones here and his parents live with them in their home there and they have had it with their grandmother. She is extremely over protective - extremely!! to the point where even at 14 & 12 she won't let them eat hard candy's for fear of choking, but on the flip side - their little bratty cousin can come over and do absolutely anything he wants. Eats the girls candy, takes things from their room, etc and Grandma says let him have it cause he's only 7 and doesn't understand. At 7 years he better understand whats his and isn't! So because of grandma, the tight quarters, the sharing of the room, the bratty cousins and never seeing dad - the tension is building and they are growing to hate him and their grandparents - which I don't want to happen!! I've already had a sit down with my X months ago to tell him he needs to spend more time with them because of this, but it seems not to have worked at all.
Now after all that rambling - how do I handle this? Should I let the girls try to talk to him? Should I try alone again? Should we try to talk it through all together? or family therapy? I just don't know what to do and I don't want them to hate their father. At 14, my older one can choose where she lives and she knows that (researched that info on her own), but does not want to hurt her dads feelings by choosing my house, but in the same breath her little sister says the older one constantly says how much she hates dad and grandma everytime they are in their room. What can I do?
Thanks so much!
And again I am so glad I found this website.

How far away is he from where you live? Maybe an option would be to do outings or just days instead. I think maybe you should talk to him a bit first, soften the blow and let him know that you are going to suggest the girls talk to him. I think it would be good if they sat with him and explained it all, a good old heart-to-heart chat. With him already knowing it is coming it should be easier on everybody -- that's a tough blow to hear out of the blue (maybe you said you told him a bit already though now that I think about it.)

I believe people here have told me that even if the child wishes not to go it is legally in your best interest to send the child (thinking about the 12 yr old here).... but it sounds like you and your ex have a super relationship and he has a good one with the girls so should respect a well-backed decision even if it hurts.

ugh, I'm sure this will be coming my way in the future. I know my 7 yr old usually doesn't want to go but at this point, no choices and no superior thoughts on why.... well, maybe a few but doesn't matter.

Curious to see what others think on this one. I hope you all can figure it out, could he ever find a place not with his parents?

I would have a discussion with the ex. Don't mention anything about his behavior, but bring up everything else. Everything else is beyond his control, and shouldn't hurt his feelings too much. He might even be aware that the girls are having trouble with it.

I would go into the discussion, you know this is so sad, but the girls are having these feelings because of these incidences. Their feelings have reached the point that they are dreading spending time at your HOUSE. (State it as the girls don't like your house, not the girls don't want to be around you, most of their issues revolve around the housing situation.) Present the resetraining facts, and see if he cant help create a viable solution for the girls. If he understands that the girls are uncomfortable with the HOUSE, and not with him, he might be willing to negotiate some solution. I realize they have a couple of issues with him, but those sound minor. It sounds like the other things are their main stressors. And if their grandmother, the tight bedroom, their difficult cousin, if all those were removed, they probably wouldn't have such a problem with their father's behavior.

Thanks for the response. I'll see if I can set something up with him again to talk to him alone first. I'll also follow the advice on keeping him out of the discussion. That should help to not hurt his feelings.
SueP - he only lives about 1 mile away (unfortunately no sidewalks so the girls can't walk), but he's real close. What did you mean by outings or day trips? Just curious.
As for the grandparents moving - no such luck. My X works as a school teaching assistant, but does not have a degree and therefore makes very little. His parents were never very good with their income as well and as a result owe a great deal in taxes and don't bring in much by way of income either - thus resulting in a new house, purchased by their eldest son (my X's brother) and rented by both him and his parents - splitting the rent/mortgage. Neither one of them could ever afford to live on their own. Makes it rough on me too because even though he loves his kids, I make a lot more than he does and I pay child support and he knows he can't live without the money I pay him - i.e. - the girls living with me would mean the end of that.

I was thinking they could see him without actually sleeping over... go out and do things, go to lunch, dinner, movie, whatever they all enjoy. It would get him away from the computer and spending real time with them and keep them from being stuck in the house.

Oh and btw, I taught in MA so I know all too well the salary issue and I did have a degree!

Lisa Marie,
:welcome:

It sounds as though you have a relationship with your ex that many of us can only dream of.

You have recieved some very good advice, and I second that advice. A very important point was to make this about everything else going on in the household, and not about him. I agree with the outings. Movies, amusement, lunch, dinner, weekends away, etc., so that the girls have his undivided attention. Make it as though you know he has a great relationship with his girls (and You) and you want to approach him with this subject so that it will not get out of proportion in their teenage minds, and destroy the precious relationship they share.

I hope this works and I hope it prompts a good conversation between the three of them to solve the problem.

Sigh, I am a guy, I would rather you point blank me the truth, then sugar coat it, corse I am far from a teacher, But I think the truth would be called for. I love my girls, we talk all the time, they say "but dad you are our friend also", sad when a dad doesn't have that, more special then gold or jewels.

I think I have to agree with Paul in letting him know the issues with him as well. I know there are other issues besides him and I would keep the focus on those yet tell the truth.
It is truly a shame that he can not afford to live on his own and at the same time if the girls come live with you it is not your responsibility to pay his morgage. I don't know the entire situation but if it is a fifty fifty deal now why are you paying support? All these people living together and they are still struggling?
Good luck and God bless.

Your children do not have to go if they do not want to go, my son is 10 and he does not have to go if he does not want to.

One of my daughters friends left her mom's house at 11yrs old, she told her mom she was going out with her friends. The next thing the mom knew, she got a phone call saying her daughter was not coming back and was moving in with her step father.

Now I do not know about where you are from, but here children now have a lot to say about where they want to live. This is a very touchy subject to speak to another parent about, especially if it is something they do not feel they are doing wrong.

I would talk to him alone(cause you can get a sence of his reaction first), then sit with him and the girls and let them explain to him why they don't want to spend so much time there anymore. I tried this with my ex, he just could not see what he was doing wrong and how it was either me putting things into my kids head or my son was lying about him not spending time with him. We were sivel for 10yrs before all of this, but you just never know what they will react like when they are being told the truth.

Thanks so much to all of you. I'll have to make a valid attempt to approach this with him again. We have had this conversation before, but it was about him and the girls. I was honest with him at that point and he said he would make a valid attempt to change it. My point was that he was a good father and his girls loved him, but there were a few things that were upsetting them and I didn't want him to jeopordize the good relationship that they had. I basically told him - I don't want to see your children grow to hate you. He took that well and completely understood, yet that was months ago and from what the girls have told me - things haven't changed (BTW - the girls know nothing of the conversation I had with their dad - it's not something they need to be involved with). I guess I'll just try to have the conversation again and see what happens, it's just that there's a lot more this time and I don't want him to start to get defensive on me. I just have to make it clear to him that he's going to lose them (by their choice) if he doesn't change things.
tomany2count: Our deal is 50/50 - but not in writing. Many years ago I worked a job that required me to be there all hours of the day. Sometimes days, sometimes nights, sometimes overnight and since the kids were young - we both thought it was best for them to spend time with their dad (cause he was a teacher too and home for them at the same time) rather than me put them in a daycare. If dads home - then why send them to strangers, so he had physical custody. Anyways, I moved after a couple of years to be within a mile of them and changed jobs. Problem is that my income went up so much (not trying to be snobbish here - just explaining), that now what I pay him is actually what I am suppose to be paying if they are with me 1/2 the time. In other words if they were with him for the full week still - I'd be paying exactly double what I'm paying now.
The fact that he had physical custody is also a problem as I cannot go to court with this if need be because I was already told by a lawyer that basically cause I let them live with him for a few years - why would the judge switch them now. I'd need a valid provable reason for that and if the judge isn't in a "good mood" basically I risk it all backfiring on me too - meaning I'd be forced to pay the full week pay to him even though they spend 50% of the time with me?? Didn't make sense to me - but I suppose they can do anything. That and I don't want to go to court anyways. I'd rather solve this on my own, but as I said, because he makes very little, the fact that he risks losing his support money would be a great reason for him to take me back to court. I do pay his mortgage now, that and a few other bills. He's told me he can't survive without it.

Arrggghhhh.....last night my daughter came to visit me and was all upset cause her dad was making her go to a hockey game to watch her cousin play. She didn't want to go (wasn't dressed for it - i.e. - boys, not dolled up, etc). So she was upset. Her dad said she was going because he wanted to spend time with her, but I think that was pretty much just an excuse because I was married to this man and sports are a huge deal in his life (and his family's). In other words he wouldn't have entertained any other ideas from her to spend time together, instead if it really came down to it she would have stayed home alone and he would have gone anyways. So frustrating to see him doing the same thing to the kids that I got so mad at. These are some of the reasons the marriage didn't work out - he was always playing videos games or napping or at some sports event and I was expected to either attend with him or stay home. He's doing the same thing to them now! She clearly didn't want to go, but I bit my tongue because I didn't want to argue with him in front of her. I don't want to give my daughter the wrong idea - I know we need to work together as parents and even though I support her, I don't think telling her dad he's wrong in front of her is a good thing. It's just so frustrating. She begged me to stay with me, but I work a few hours a week at night and I was at work. My boss frowns on having our kids at work.

Just an FYI for anyone I spoke to here that gave me great advice. I had a long chat with my X tonite - one on one. Lasted about 2 hours and was very productive. It ultimately came as a result of a blow up at his house this morning involving his parents and my kids. Was a bad blow up, but an opening non the less into the conversation. He completely understands all I said and is supporting whatever is best for the girls. We decided to start off by having an open conversation with the kids next time to talk about everything (something that actually both girls are looking forward to. I suppose they are dying to be heard as well). The next step will be to involve his parents in the conversation and after that we will see if things get better, or if it is best for them to spend more time at my house.
It sounds like all of them over there are getting frustrated - his parents included. And like I told him - they are grandparents now and even though my kids live with them, I'm sure they weren't bargaining on having kids again, but since his mom is the only female in the house her motherly instinct is kicking in and it frustrates the kids because she's not their mom and I"m starting to think it frustrates her as well because she's done with her kids and just wants to be the grandma.
These discussions will be good for all of us.
I have to say that after reading the forums here, I realize that I am one of the very lucky ones who has a relationship with my X that a lot wish they had. We will never cross back over into any kind of intimacy and never have which helps not to complicate things. We just work very well together as parents and I"m very grateful. (Even though he still frustrates the **** out of me sometimes....haha. Well I guess that's why we aren't married anymore right?)

quote:

It sounds like all of them over there are getting frustrated - his parents included. And like I told him - they are grandparents now and even though my kids live with them, I'm sure they weren't bargaining on having kids again, but since his mom is the only female in the house her motherly instinct is kicking in and it frustrates the kids because she's not their mom and I"m starting to think it frustrates her as well because she's done with her kids and just wants to be the grandma.
These discussions will be good for all of us.

I am positive this happens with my ex and his mother. She Nana, yet she can't be because they are there to stay when they come. The old Nana saying is love them and then kiss them good bye and look forward to the next visit. These grandparents are having to do it all over again, plus they have their grown children living with them when they should be long now enjoying their empty nest. This is not what they had in store yet they've ended up in that spot.

I think that your children are very lucky. You are a very intuitive and caring mom AND ex and it sounds like although there are frustrations there, that your ex is also that way.

I will be thinking of you all and hoping the sit-down goes well for all. I'm sure, like you said, it is going to be a positive for everybody involved!

quote:

Originally posted by SueP:
I am positive this happens with my ex and his mother. She Nana, yet she can't be because they are there to stay when they come. The old Nana saying is love them and then kiss them good bye and look forward to the next visit. These grandparents are having to do it all over again, plus they have their grown children living with them when they should be long now enjoying their empty nest. This is not what they had in store yet they've ended up in that spot.

Completely agree and honestly this is something that I never ever even thought of before, but it makes everything make more sense now. Makes me feel bad for his parents in a way too. Although - in this case it's not my X's fault they are living together. He is not living with them and they are not living with him, they were all put in a position where my X rented the duplex from his brother and his parents unfortunately lost their house and this was all they could afford so they moved in with him. Truth is he couldn't have afforded the home without splitting it with his parents, but it's at least not the classic case of son moving back into mom & dads house. Although in some cases this also causes problems because it's not "his roof over their heads" and it's not "their roof over his head" - make sense??

Anyways - I suppose that's enough rambling.
I do have to say - as a side note - I'm really glad I found this site. I guess you live in a "bubble" so to speak after divorce that makes you think you are the only one going through all this confusing stuff and nobody understands. Truth is - there are ton's of people that completely understand I'm finding.
Hopefully over time I can get through all the 1000's of posts here.