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Old 05-19-2011, 08:18 PM   #1
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Default Give the kids a choice?

thoughts? opinions? ideas? criticism?

so, BM has not called since mothers day...she missed 4 nights that she was supposed to call....

tonight she finally called...secretly, I was hoping she became a statistic in the past 2 weeks...

I looked at Bubba and asked "Do you want to talk to mommy?"

He looked at me, said "no" with a look that said 'please don't make me talk to her'...

i let it go to voicemail...Bubba went back to playing...no message by her...

and it was over...

so, at 5 yrs old, should Bubba have the choice to talk to her?
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Old 05-19-2011, 08:34 PM   #2
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

I say Yes

and good for you for asking him.

most parents wouldn't have
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Old 05-19-2011, 08:38 PM   #3
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

Yes and no. You did right asking him once, don't over and over.
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Old 05-19-2011, 08:49 PM   #4
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

you mean don't ask every time she decides to bless us with a call?
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Old 05-19-2011, 08:57 PM   #5
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

Tough one. I think you did the right thing- he was clearly saying with words and actions he didn't want to talk but something tells me if you give him that choice every time the response will be the same, to the point that it could come back and bite you on the a$$ by her saying you're trying to keep him from you. Or, she may do the opposite and call even less- you probably know better than anyone which she is more likely to do.
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Old 05-19-2011, 08:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

I think it's okay to ask... but if say he had asked about his mom earlier that day but just said no at that moment because he was preoccupied with toys, I might encourage him a little
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Old 05-19-2011, 09:32 PM   #7
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

it's been an ongoing issue...she hasn't had physical visitation with him since Nov 2008 (her choice...)

phone has been sporadic...

Bubba is starting to be negatively affected by her...

truth is, i've tossed this around 6 ways to sunday...and have a decision made...just curious what other think...
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Old 05-19-2011, 09:55 PM   #8
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

I say you are correct but legally she is exercising her option....though not consistently. Legally it could bite you.....sad but true.
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Old 05-19-2011, 10:09 PM   #9
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

I think it was fine to ask him once, but I don't think it is good for him to have the responsibility of the decision ongoing. You know what I think about taking the calls.
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Old 05-19-2011, 10:24 PM   #10
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

If you decided to ignore her phone calls against court order, would she ever take you to court over it?

I agree with you. The negative effect on Bubba I think trumps everything. Not sure if the court would agree.

I have been in a similar situation and I also felt that his actions were a negative effect on my daughter. After standing my ground per court order he is now out of the picture. It has been 5 yrs. I have not regrets. I am sure there are a lot of parents that may disagree with me, but I made the best decision I could at the time, now I must lay in my bed.

Good luck!
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Old 05-19-2011, 11:16 PM   #11
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

I wish you could change your number. I think that he has no concept of who that voice is. It's been way too long. Personally, screw the order, same forgiveness later. She's made NO changes and she won't.
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Old 05-20-2011, 08:11 AM   #12
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

If it were me in your situation BD id probably think "if she cant be bothered seeing him then she needent bother ringing him" and id just ignore her. But thats just me.

He will probably say no every time you ask him. I dont really think talking to her does him any good. When he grows up do you think he's gonna give a Shit about the mother who would rather have been out galivanting that spend time with him? A phone call every once in a while doesnt change that.
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Old 05-20-2011, 08:58 AM   #13
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

I think even if you choose to let him make the choice, it really is you. Cause under your logic, would that choice apply to candy, or doctors for well check ups and shots. Where does the line get drawn ?


I think at five, he is just starting to begin to reason, and have some sprinkle of understanding. Its the reason schools start around this age. The next five years is prime opportunity to teach social cultural skills.

I would explain to Bubba, about respect to people regardless how scummy they are, and that YOU could never thank BM enough as she gave you to me. It is sad she is having so much trouble in her life, so when she calls how about you tell her some good that happened in your life, like finding that cool rock that can skip a million times and then you can tell her you can/cant talk more.'

Bubba will not only have her to contend with in his life journey, but he can be ahead of the game by using BM as an example to how to treat less than human people with respect.

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Old 05-20-2011, 09:15 AM   #14
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

Yeah.....I'm not a bleeding heart...sorry....

We all make choices in this world....I spent a ton of money to make sure I wasn't out of line...the judge agreed with me...

Over the past 4 months or so, I've asked Bubba that same question 3 times...all 3 times, he's said no...the remainder of the times she called, I've gone out of my way to make sure he talked to her (call forwarding if I was working, calling back if I missed a call, etc.)

The other 50% of the time, she just didn't call..

She offers nothing positive to Bubba's life....nothing...and it's not going to be Bubba's burden to bring something positive to hers...

Oops...did I say that out loud?
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Old 05-20-2011, 09:21 AM   #15
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

You're doing the right thing. It's not like your ignoring the calls all together and not asking him if he wants to talk to her. That should say something if he would RATHER play with toys then talk to his mom. He obviously can tell that she doesn't bring anything positive into his life.
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Old 05-20-2011, 10:10 AM   #16
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

I agree with Mother. We do need to treat others with respect, no matter how un-human they are.
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Old 05-20-2011, 10:16 AM   #17
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba'sDad View Post
Yeah.....I'm not a bleeding heart...sorry....

We all make choices in this world....I spent a ton of money to make sure I wasn't out of line...the judge agreed with me...

Over the past 4 months or so, I've asked Bubba that same question 3 times...all 3 times, he's said no...the remainder of the times she called, I've gone out of my way to make sure he talked to her (call forwarding if I was working, calling back if I missed a call, etc.)

The other 50% of the time, she just didn't call..

She offers nothing positive to Bubba's life....nothing...and it's not going to be Bubba's burden to bring something positive to hers...

Oops...did I say that out loud?
Yea, Im a bleeding heart where children are concerned, then again, im a mercyless hard a$$ where adult are concerned and hold then to a much higher standard than a child. But thats just how I roll.

BD its all up to you and what ever Bubba choices are, really you will be the one that pays the price to it, good and bad price. His life really hasent started, this is his childhood and all choices are really yours, he wont remember this situation but it will be embedded in his foundation and core to who he will become.

Your situation, its not that all uncommon, but I have seem the many out comes, and as long as the parent isn't physically, or verbally abusive, a child should have contact to both parents.

But if a Judge agreed that you should let bubba make the choice, well then there your answer.
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Old 05-20-2011, 10:39 AM   #18
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

OK...OK...

I have to be on the other side and say BAD BD!

I say this because that was the excuse the GP's were using when I was calling every day to talk to my little guy! They had him brainwashed because of it!

Do NOT give him the option. he needs to understand that while she may be a (s)cum-bucket, she does have the right to talk to him without interferrance.

On the fact that she didn't leave a voice message...well...that's her bad.

I think you need to encourage him to talk to her. Life makes us deal with lots of people that we would rather not, and some can be very unpleasant. It will show him that you have to face unpleasantness head on to deal with it effectively!
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Old 05-20-2011, 10:55 AM   #19
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

i will add this...

IF she called consistently....

IF she made an effort to actually see him....

IF she made an effort to remotely resemble a mother....

THEN I would make sure he talked to her whenever she called...

However, from my perspective...

he'll still talk to her, but not at her convenience...

we've spent 2.5 yrs worrying about being available for her to call...

please don't take any of this personally, i'm not and i do appreciate the different views...we tend to get tunnel vision when it comes to our kids...
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Old 05-20-2011, 11:32 AM   #20
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

Remember to that some have limited facts. Personally, you all know that I advocate giving parents access. However, in this case I say a resounding no. The potential to abuse or exposing bubba to abuse is tremendous. And since BD has shared some stuff about this woman with me - let's just say she has no business being aound a child. Also, did anyone note Bubba is being effected?
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Old 05-20-2011, 11:43 AM   #21
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

@ LSL, I think My focus is not letting a 5 year old make a choice and yes my point is only on the information given to me, and will stand by it, unless there is full disclosure, and the thread is privy to the same info you have been given.
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Old 05-20-2011, 12:07 PM   #22
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

I guess I posted this more as a general discussion, since there is info that really shouldn't be posted here specific about BM....sorry for the confusion...
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Old 05-20-2011, 02:15 PM   #23
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

I think you've done a "test" of what Bubba wants. Now its time to stop asking and decide what YOU are going to do. I do agree that asking puts a degree of responsibility on a child. However, if a parent has been given opportunities to resolve the issues and dies nothing, if that parent can't be bothered to call when the parent has tho opportunity, if the calls are disturbing to the child........ then its time to stop them.
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Old 05-20-2011, 02:18 PM   #24
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

BD you know your son and your situation. From what I have heard I think I would do what you have done. Good luck BM is not a mother shes something that can not be named.
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Old 05-20-2011, 03:38 PM   #25
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

She's worse than my ex....
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Old 05-20-2011, 03:50 PM   #26
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

Don't know dad. In some ways. But your ex wins in others. Sad that we can compare them
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Old 05-20-2011, 06:28 PM   #27
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

Quote:
it's not going to be Bubba's burden to bring something positive to hers...
Knowing more of the story and having seen the latest business venture, I have to agree. Yours in one of the very few situations I find very black and white. There is nothing positive whatsoever that could come from him being exposed to that world.
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Old 05-20-2011, 07:15 PM   #28
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

Agreed idig, agreed.
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Old 05-20-2011, 07:35 PM   #29
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

But if she is not charging him for the calls by the minute, isn't the call legitimate?
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Old 05-20-2011, 07:53 PM   #30
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba'sDad View Post
I guess I posted this more as a general discussion, since there is info that really shouldn't be posted here specific about BM....sorry for the confusion...
Which is why I said yes and no. I know your purpose and motivation behind it and what you were looking for. Another person might do this to try, on some level, to absolve themselves from being the decision maker. Huge burden for a child, imo.

As for the courts my question is permission or forgiveness. Like WW said, what are the chances she will fight it, especially based on past behavior? You have 2.5 years of not doing anything consistently or even close with the opportunity to build a relationship. In my view you have to take the chance and do what is best for him. What is the WORST that can happen if you do? You get forced to take phone calls again? You are a business man. Assess the potential risks and advantages, consult experts, cya, then make a decision.
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Old 05-20-2011, 10:14 PM   #31
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

Exactly idig. Ask forgiveness. Access, decide, and move on. She's not going to do anything anyway. Not in her nature.
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Old 05-22-2011, 09:38 PM   #32
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

Just as an update...no phone call tonight...no need to worry about asking Bubba...
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Old 05-22-2011, 10:27 PM   #33
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Default Re: Give the kids a choice?

I don't know the "rest of the story" and that could influence any particular viewpoint. So based on what I see here and what little I might have gleened from reading other threads I will say this,...

1. You seem to think Mothers post was about protecting your BM, but I think she is suggesting only that you do what is best for Bubba (I know you are trying to do). It is obvious your disdain for BM and I am sure it is warranted. Only you know all the facts and only you can/will make this decision, but of course it should be based on Bubba and not on how she makes you feel. Have you accepted the fact that she is never going to be the BM you had hoped she would be? But she is still BM.

2. I wonder how much damage he can sustain from a monitored phone call? And what is the net effect of not speaking to her? Short term it might be that he forgets about her. But if he does, won't he seek her out later? Would it be better if he had SOME contact giving you the opportunity to discuss her "situation" with as much tact as possible?? Would he grow up with a better idea of who she is and be less likely to be sucked in by her later??

3. We have always given B the option of whether or not he wanted to speak to the other parent on the phone, UNLESS the other parent specifically wanted to speak to him. At that point he does have to make that effort.

4. With all of her issues can't you go back to court to terminate all rights?? IDK how hard it is to do.

These are just random thoughts. Only you know your reality, so good luck.
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