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Old 10-16-2009, 11:19 PM   #1
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Default heating and air

This is the closest category I could find for this thread.

I have turned on my heat for the first time this season, going into the 30's tonight! Boy does it stink when you run it the first time!

I have natural gas heat, and I assumed everyone else had that or a heat pump until I met Sara last year. It seems that in some parts of the country people use heating oil. Being me, I am now curious.

How does heating oil work? Do you have a tank at your house? Is it delivered or do you take a tank somewhere and get it filled? I wonder how it stacks up costwise against natural gas?

I wonder what is used in Europe? Doesn't petrol come from Russia there? I think that is what I was told, why it is so much more expensive there than here?

What about electricity in Europe. I was shocked to hear that many people don't use clothes dryers (or so I am told it is in England anyway) because energy is so expensive!!! I can't imagine hanging and having to iron everything!

Ok, I am rambling. I will blame it on the cough syrup, yeah, that's it the cough syrup......

---------- Post added at 09:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:14 PM ----------

Somehow this posted twice and I can't delete either of them THe cough syrup, yeah that's it, the cough syrup.....
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:23 PM   #2
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Default Re: heating and air

We have straight electric here. My understanding of heating oil is that there is a tank somewhere on the property that is filled. Can't tell you what the cost is in comparison at all. I just know how it works
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:26 PM   #3
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Default Re: heating and air

So is natural gas not available everywhere? I never knew!
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:34 PM   #4
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Default Re: heating and air

Strangely enough, I find this really interesting. Around here, electric is super expensive. Especially if it is used for lights and water. Heating oil tanks can be inside or outside. There sizes can vary. The fuel is pumped through a filter at the bottom of the tank which is then distributed to your furnace or boiler, which in turn goes to baseboards, or forced air system. Some people I know have wood/oil combination, or some may even have them separate. Mine are separate. I burn wood and oil. Oil for my hot water and for when I am too lazy to put some wood in the stove.

Natural gas, I dont know the first thing about. Is it really natural? Is it a liquid or a vapour like propane?
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:36 PM   #5
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Default Re: heating and air

We have natural gas here. But electricity is actually cheaper because of the big dams around here. My understanding is that heating oil is more common in the Northeast because of all the older buildings. retrofitting them with heating ducts and so on is/was near impossible due to cost. I think if I remember from my energy class, only 8 million US households use it, the majority in the Northeast.
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:42 PM   #6
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Default Re: heating and air

Our electricity here is relatively cheap, as is our natural gas, I guess.

Natty, we have natural gas lines that run to our houses like water lines do. My hot water and heat are natural gas. Some people have gas stoves and ovens too. They are really better for cooking IMO. I have a natural gas grill too.

As far as cost, it costs me about $30 a month during the summer for my hot water and grill, with two of us bathing. I don't generally wash laundry in hot or even warm water, which would drive it up. In the winter my gas bill is probably about $150 a month on average, maybe a little higher. But it is relative because we don't get nearly as cold here as most of you.
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:47 PM   #7
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Default Re: heating and air

WOW! That is cheap to me. Around here I know people who spend up $3000.00 a year to heat. That is strictly oil though. And it probably gets a lot colder here too! Personally, we roughly spend $800-$1000/yr that is with the wood
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:50 PM   #8
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Default Re: heating and air

EEK! I probably spend $4000 MAX on both heat and electricity(AC and everything else!)! Of course our pay is less here because our cost of living is low, so it is all relative I think.....
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:52 PM   #9
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Default Re: heating and air

I spend about 45 a month during the summer, $65 during fall/spring, and $90 during the winter for electricity.

My parents have natural gas and electric.
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:54 PM   #10
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Default Re: heating and air

That is incredible Lisa!!! When I lived in an apartment 20 years ago I paid more than that!
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Old 10-17-2009, 12:16 AM   #11
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Default Re: heating and air

It helps living in a newly constructed building with good insulation 10 years ago, when I lived in an older duplex with baseboard heating it was easily triple that.
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Old 10-17-2009, 12:20 AM   #12
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Default Re: heating and air

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natty View Post

Natural gas, I dont know the first thing about. Is it really natural? Is it a liquid or a vapour like propane?
It is vapor. There is something in it that smells horrible so you know if you have a leak....
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Old 10-17-2009, 12:39 AM   #13
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Default Re: heating and air

Natural gas is more of a "green" fuel as well. Lots of cars up hear run on it.
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Old 10-17-2009, 12:58 AM   #14
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Default Re: heating and air

My electric is between 100 and 150 a month and that is no heat. My heating oil will probably end up being between 2 and 3,ooo this winter.
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Old 10-17-2009, 01:03 AM   #15
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Default Re: heating and air

Geez!!!! That is unreal! Is it because your place isn't insulated?

So is it a tank you take to fill somewhere or do trucks come pump it in? How does that work??

---------- Post added at 11:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Law Student Lisa View Post
I spend about 45 a month during the summer, $65 during fall/spring, and $90 during the winter for electricity.

My parents have natural gas and electric.
Maybe we should all go live in Lisa's apts!!
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Old 10-17-2009, 01:20 AM   #16
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Default Re: heating and air

It is a huge tank, for me outside but some have them in their basement. Part of my cost is yes.....a 70's trailer but that isnt that far out with my location and climate. Most people here have an alternate heating source like a woodstove. Electric is awful here also and only getting wrse. They had a cap on electric but that goes away in January. I know some who had 400 dollar electric bills a month last winter
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Old 10-17-2009, 03:19 AM   #17
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Default Re: heating and air

I'd neveer even heard of heating oil before now!

Here, we have electric air conditioning and a natural gas heater. So our electric bill is high in the summer, and the gas bill is high in the winter. They balance each other out as they go up and down, but on average the higher of the two runs about $250-$300 a month, and the lower probably closer to $100-$150 a month. I live in an area where it gets very hot in the summer, and very cold in the winter, and anymore there aren't many days when it's comfortable to just have the windows open. The transitions between seasons are getting shorter and shorter.
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Old 10-17-2009, 10:17 AM   #18
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Default Re: heating and air

My house was built with electric heat......when it was cheap.....but the retrofit costs of a furnace and duct work is formidable. So we heat with wood. I have two units going....its fun right now....the fire and flames etc.....but by February you curse having to get up and keep it going! It does wear thin!

Living rurally there are no gas lines here, so I have been exploring propane costs. It seems when I look into something though, the commodity costs go up! Electric bills are still $300-$500 a month. Looking at a tankless water heater to see if I can cut more on my electric bill.
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Old 10-17-2009, 12:47 PM   #19
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Default Re: heating and air

On Long Island, electric heat could very quickly bankrupt you. Lilco (now Lipa) was the most expensive form of energy around. However, home heating oil was also in the $3.00 a gallon area. Natural gas was your best bet there.
Here it's best to have a heat pump...though lots of people have this wood burning furnace that it set a considerable distance from the house. You can put huge logs in the thing...it heats water for hot water baseboard heat.
Here, natural gas will bankrupt you. Fast. I don't know why.
Amazingly, no-one uses coal here...go figure?
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:04 AM   #20
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Default Re: heating and air

I know that there is a program called LHEAP in NY and PA (Sarah, this something you should look in to) that helps families in need pay for their fuel oil bill.

I don't have Fuel but straight electric and my bills jump from about $40 a month in the summer to close to $300 a month in the winter. and since winter came early this year, guess those big bills will come early also!!!!
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:11 AM   #21
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Default Re: heating and air

I actually saw a flyer for Liheap yesterday and applications start November 1. If I cant figure it out I will probably apply this year
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:23 AM   #22
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Default Re: heating and air

No, Sara. You need to apply regardless if you can figure it out. These programs are out there for people like you and I!!!! Even if you can scrounge up the money, that is money that can be used for other things!!!

I know how you feel about trying to do it alone, but with the price of fuel and everything else that has been steadily rising, it is hard with two incomes let alone one!!! Please don't be afraid to ask for help, we all need it at one point in our lives!

And the money get's disbursed as of Nov, 1, so you need to apply now, it is a very painless application and helps an enormous amount I know that the $400 I received last year kept me from having my electricity shut off in the middle of winter!!

OK, I will stop lecturing but please apply!!!!!
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:28 AM   #23
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Default Re: heating and air

I know, I know......I just always think what if I am takeing away from someone who is in a worse position than myself. We may actually get some overtime this month and right now I do have about a half a tank. Cross my heart I wont go without heat:biggrin_wink:
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:53 AM   #24
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Default Re: heating and air

Quote:
Originally Posted by muskiedad View Post
My house was built with electric heat......when it was cheap.....but the retrofit costs of a furnace and duct work is formidable. So we heat with wood. I have two units going....its fun right now....the fire and flames etc.....but by February you curse having to get up and keep it going! It does wear thin!

Living rurally there are no gas lines here, so I have been exploring propane costs. It seems when I look into something though, the commodity costs go up! Electric bills are still $300-$500 a month. Looking at a tankless water heater to see if I can cut more on my electric bill.
don't even bother with a tankless electric...you will most likely need to upgrade your service...most electric tankless's required 100+ amps....they are great if you have gas...

add in that the average electric tank heater will cost about $250-300 (+installation) and the average electric tankless will cost $800-$1000 (+installation, +possible service upgrade) and your payback will be longer than the life of the heater....

install a timer for the tank heater, so it comes on for a few hours in the AM and a few hours in the PM and add a blanket...cheaper, quicker ROI, and better for you in the short and long term...

---------- Post added at 09:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:51 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by sara1 View Post
I know, I know......I just always think what if I am takeing away from someone who is in a worse position than myself. We may actually get some overtime this month and right now I do have about a half a tank. Cross my heart I wont go without heat:biggrin_wink:
pride is not always good...
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:59 AM   #25
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Default Re: heating and air

Well, great that you are getting that extra money this month, now save it for Christmas and go down and apply! Those much worse off than you will get the assistance that they need!!!
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Old 10-18-2009, 12:30 PM   #26
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Default Re: heating and air

Bubba I have 200 amp service now, and had thought they'd remove that tank, hang tankless on wall and just connect that circuit to tankless. I think it's a double 30 amp breaker right now. And I gotta admit.......I had visions of extra floorspace too! I just rec'd a flyer in the mail stating I could receive up to $1200 in rebates and tax credits for going tankless. So if that is the potential rebates.....it must be far more expensive than I thought. These guys are not here to lose money!
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Old 10-18-2009, 01:19 PM   #27
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Default Re: heating and air

http://www.e-tankless.com/gas-vs-electric.php

pay attention to the gallons per min and the temperature rise...
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Old 10-18-2009, 03:40 PM   #28
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Default Re: heating and air

I just wanted to say that I actually work for an oil company, and you would not believe how important these programs are. There has been so many occasions where I have sent people to the programs. Many of them single parents, and even 2 income households. Working in my profession can be extremely difficult for me especially during the heating season. I see a lot of sad stories. The fact is so many people need help, even I myself take part in some programs. It is there to use, it really is. Here, a lot of local companies donate so much funds to these programs as well as the government, a lot of the times not even half of the funds get used. Nobody needs to be left out in the cold, or without hot water. For those of you who need this kind of assistance, please take part. I see it everyday and there is nothing wrong with this. Without spending that money on heating oil, you could buy more groceries, pay another bill...It is there to use please do not be afraid to do so!
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Old 10-18-2009, 04:02 PM   #29
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Default Re: heating and air

Thanks Bubba.......more research needed on my part. Until legal things are settled here no money will be going into the house of course....no more than req'd. Our utility is switching to time of use billing for electric, so peak hours cost more etc. This will be an adjustment.......maybe getting kids up at 3 am for showers???? LOL
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Old 10-19-2009, 05:34 PM   #30
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Default Re: heating and air

My new place is all electric. Looking into a pellet stove. (I think thats what its called) Will not be doing anything until next year. My father is in the furnace and heat pump business. But is no help he doesnt want to do anything for me so Im looking at other options.
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