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Old 06-24-2004, 09:58 PM   #1
Loosing Loyalty
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Hi. A couple years ago, I (Caucasion) married an Hispanic Wife. We are totally in Love. I have 3 children who live near their mother, my wife has 5 children who also have all left the nest. These 8 childrens' ages are between 19 and 30. My wifes relationship with her children is very close. Her oldest son (30yo) married a caucasion woman (20yo). Her name is not Sue, so we will call her just that. She is a very manipulative and controling woman. I am a very reserved quiet man, and yet my Daughter-in-Law absolutely hates my guts. She says that I am an evil man. She has caused everyone of my step-children to hate me for one reason or another, none of which are very substantial reasons. The reasons are such things like: I make one son pick up after himself (food wrappers) after eating in the living room in front of the TV; I said that I need the children to ask my permission before using my car in case I needed to use it. They were in the habit of simply taking the car if it was home.

Last year, my step daughter asked my wife to come up for a visit for her child birth. However, I was not welcome, and they would not allow me to come visit, too. Since my wife and I are very close, that did not sit well with either of us. After considerable discussion with my wife, We decided that she would go visit, and she would tell her son and Sue that she would not return unless we both were welcome. Upon her return home, Her son phoned to inform us that I, too, was welcome anytime I wished to come visit. Time went on, with no further confrontations.

Sue is again giving birth in August, and my wife was going to fly to visit. I suggested that we drive, and make a little vacation of it. My wife said that she did not wish to spend 4 days of her time driving when she could be visiting with her son. Upon discussion, it was disclosed that the reason was again that I was not welcome to visit as I would make the expectant mother too nervous. My wife and I discussed the situation, and the next day my step-son and wife purchased plane tickets for her travel.

I am now deeply crushed at the broken promise made to me, the excessive loyalty expressed towards her son, and total lack of consideration of my feelings.

I have resolved that this is simply a promise made to me that my wife could not keep. Never-the-less, I am concerned because my love for my wife has faded dimmer, and I know it. I am a very sensitive man, and am very hurt.

What should I try to do so this does not happen to me again?
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Old 06-25-2004, 11:59 AM   #2
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I find it interesting you emphasize interracial, not sure that it has anything to do with the problem. From your post it sounds like they grew up doing as they pleased and now that they are expected to pick up after themselves, or ask permission to take the car etc. they resent it. It doesn't seem that you are asking too much of them. I just might be inclined to report a stolen car if someone took mine without permission. If they can't understand that then they still have a lot of growing up to do. It is just common decency to pick up after yourself and not take someone else's property without permission. Don't know what the other issues are but those two shouldn't have you at odds with them if they had a little respect.
At any rate, perhaps family counseling might be of some help. It seems that your wife will still continue to visit her kids whether you are welcome or not. Personally I wouldn't want a "token" welcome from them anyway, so that you could visit together with your wife, knowing that I wasn't really welcome anyway. Hopefully you can get the issues resolved so that you really would be welcome around them. In the meantime, if it were me, I'd probably not let it bother me too much that she is visiting her son without me, but I'd also attempt some sort of long term resolution of working the problems out with her kids.
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Old 06-25-2004, 12:03 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by dsconstructs:
[qb]I find it interesting you emphasize interracial, not sure that it has anything to do with the problem. From your post it sounds like they grew up doing as they pleased and now that they are expected to pick up after themselves, or ask permission to take the car etc. they resent it. It doesn't seem that you are asking too much of them. I just might be inclined to report a stolen car if someone took mine without permission. If they can't understand that then they still have a lot of growing up to do.
At any rate, perhaps family counseling might be of some help. It seems that your wife will still continue to visit her kids whether you are welcome or not. Personally I wouldn't want a "token" welcome from them anyway, so that you could visit together with your wife, knowing that I wasn't really welcome anyway. Hopefully you can get the issues resolved so that you really would be welcome around them. In the meantime, if it were me, I'd probably not let it bother me too much that she is visiting her son without me, but I'd also attempt some sort of long term resolution of working the problems out with her kids.[/qb]
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Old 07-03-2004, 06:22 PM   #4
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Ya know? I really am NOT racist! I love my wife dearly, and everyone seems to think this is about race difference. I only mentioned it because there IS a culture difference that most likely has something to do with what I am experiencing. I am NOT Latino, and am anxious to hear a variety of Latino responses. Thank you if you have this to offer to me.

LL
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Old 07-03-2004, 06:43 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Loosing Loyalty:
[qb]Ya know? I really am NOT racist! I love my wife dearly, and everyone seems to think this is about race difference. I only mentioned it because there IS a culture difference that most likely has something to do with what I am experiencing. I am NOT Latino, and am anxious to hear a variety of Latino responses. Thank you if you have this to offer to me

LL[/qb]

As stated in my IM from before, I am 50% hispanic myself. I really don't see this as a cultural thing. The problems you describe with the children is something commonly seen across all races. It is how they were raised as individuals period. Are you trying to say that due to culture they don't have respect for someone else's property(your car), or picking up after themselves? I was seriously trying to give you good advice on the problems. I even stated to you (perhaps in IM also)that I didnt even think you sounded prejudice initially, I only meant that it seemed strange to even mention interracial since the problems seem so not a racial/cultural issue.
So if you yourself can't see past that then you have some learning to do is my opinion. My advice still stands on looking for a family counselor to help resolve issues between you and her kids so that you might get past the problem you post about.
I'll go further before leaving this alone, you also stated you think that the bond between husband and wife is stronger than between a mother and a child. Perhaps you'll get some eye opening advice on that as well.
Man I really do wish you luck with all this. After reading your last post being so adamant that it is a cultural thing really makes me wonder.
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Old 07-03-2004, 07:56 PM   #6
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Hey, hey, hey everyone!
I think sometimes we try so hard not to be concieved as racist we go overboard and overcompensate. Don, I tend to disagree with you a small amount on the cultural differences. I truly believe there is a difference depending on how close or far removed a person or persons are from that original culture AND how open minded they may be to other cultural ways.
I do not know what transpired between the two of you in your IMs ... chill!
LL ... there does seem to be a problem with the way these children were brought up. What were they taught? Total lack of respect, but did they have shining examples? That gentlemen is a cross cultural problem! Only you and your wife can answer that and come to a resolution.
As for the bond between a husband and wife being stronger than that of a mother and child ...... GET REAL. Most men ...(not all guys)will never ever ever understand this! LL when you do understand this you will see the light and know exactly how to deal with everything. I do believe her grown children have a little too much pull in her decisions.
Good Luck .. I hope you can work this out.
Carla

PS Yuki,
I did not find the grandmother's questions racist. I found her to have a reason to doubt her daughter and ignorant as to how to find out if this man ... that happens to be black .... is truly the father of her grandchild.
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Old 07-03-2004, 09:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by CarlaA:
[qb]Hey, hey, hey everyone!
I think sometimes we try so hard not to be concieved as racist we go overboard and overcompensate. Don, I tend to disagree with you a small amount on the cultural differences. I truly believe there is a difference depending on how close or far removed a person or persons are from that original culture AND how open minded they may be to other cultural ways.
I do not know what transpired between the two of you in your IMs ... chill!
LL ... there does seem to be a problem with the way these children were brought up. What were they taught? Total lack of respect, but did they have shining examples? That gentlemen is a cross cultural problem! Only you and your wife can answer that and come to a resolution.
As for the bond between a husband and wife being stronger than that of a mother and child ...... GET REAL. Most men ...(not all guys)will never ever ever understand this! LL when you do understand this you will see the light and know exactly how to deal with everything. I do believe her grown children have a little too much pull in her decisions.
Good Luck .. I hope you can work this out.
Carla

PS Yuki,
I did not find the grandmother's questions racist. I found her to have a reason to doubt her daughter and ignorant as to how to find out if this man ... that happens to be black .... is truly the father of her grandchild.[/qb]
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Old 07-03-2004, 09:45 PM   #8
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Thank You, everyone. I do understand the appropriate tie a mother has with her children. This is necessary for the mother to stick around during cthe hildh years. However, this son is almost 30 years old now. I cannot stop her from going. Perhaps some day, she will feel more loyalty to me. I will continue to be patient. Thanx again.
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Old 07-03-2004, 11:25 PM   #9
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Carla, you are correct in the possibilities of cultural differences taking place in an interracial relationship. However, the problem examples originally given in his post were 1-taking his car without permission as they've always done with their mom's, and 2-the one son leaving trash laying around after snacking in the living room. I just don't see that as cultural vs. just the mother's choice in how she raised her kids. It's the same sort of behaviors I have seen in many families of all sorts of races/cultures. In my original reply I honestly meant an innocent reply that I didn't understand why the topic title mentioned interracial. Guess I shouldn't have even commented on that and perhaps the advice would have been taken differently. NEVER, did I intend to call out racism, I suppose that's why I didn't even reply to Yuki's post and I suppose I really should have to clarify what I meant, my mistake and I apologize for not responding. I guess my original reply on this thread was taken much differently than intended, though even rereading it myself I can't really understand how, but then I know how the words were intended.

Losing Loyalties, I hope you can understand where I'm coming from, I think that this thread got into a direction it didn't even need to go. I still think the best way to try to solve the problem is working out a solution with you and her kids' relationship, I would hope you can figure a way to do that as it sure would help the relationship with you and your wife. I'm truly sorry this went the way it did.

To All,
I'm also quite sorry if my posts were taken as beligerent, they honestly weren't intended that way, it's just not my style. Sometimes it's hard to put the right "tone" to words on the internet and I only meant to try to emphasize that my opinion was that the problem didn't even need to be looked at as racial/cultural, still my opinion, though that doesn't mean that has to be the right opinion.
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Old 07-04-2004, 12:13 AM   #10
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by dsconstructs:
However, the problem examples originally given in his post were 1-taking his car without permission as they've always done with their mom's, and 2-the one son leaving trash laying around after snacking in the living room. I just don't see that as cultural vs. just the mother's choice in how she raised her kids. It's the same sort of behaviors I have seen in many families of all sorts of races/cultures.

I Completely Agree!
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Old 07-04-2004, 10:45 AM   #11
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Ok, I understand that nobody is being beligerant, and I am ok with all the comments thusfar. I understand how difficult it can be to have a discussion on the internet without misunderstanding. Y'all have been a good help.

My wife tells me that it is cultural, and I see the same things going on in her extended family. Her parents dont even speak english, that is just how close her roots are to Mexico.

Thanks again for your advise. It is good advise.

LL
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Old 07-04-2004, 11:25 PM   #12
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Hello to all,

I am also half Mexican. My father is Polish. I am not going to comment on racism. My comments to you LL is so what if your wife wants to see her son without you. Let them all be. Why do you even care about that if they are grown and out of your house. As far as taking your car....Lock it up. The younger kids have to learn to respect you but you need to respect them too. You are all living under the same roof and it doesn't sound like you are being unresonable as far as that goes but no one likes a dictator. I can tell you also that growing up...we grew up with the mexican side of my family. I don't even know my fathers side really. Mexican culture involves being very, very family orientated. It is probably a struggle for your wife and she shouldn't have to choose. Don't make her, you will lose. Kids will always be first in a good mother's heart. Maybe you could plan your own vacation without her during the times that she goes to visit with her kids. Sorry for you I know it hurts your feelings but your wife is feeling pressure from both sides. Good luck.
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