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Old 05-14-2010, 04:03 PM   #1
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Default The bible?

Okay, I am curious.

Let me start off by saying that I am not a Christian myself, though I was raised Catholic. I stopped going to church as soon as I got old enough to make that decision myself and the parents could no longer force me to go. I went to catholic school and have had the bible read to me all my life and myself, I could never stomach it. To me the stories in there are extremely sexist and totally unbelievable.

Now if the bible had been tought to me in a "these stories didn't actually happen, they are just tall tales meant to teach moral lessons" way then I probably would have been okay with it. But at around the age of 16 or so I began to really see a lot of problems with it. I looked around at church and saw these people who actually believed in it and it dumbfounds me. I just can't get over how people actually believe that those completely unrealistic stories in some book are real. That is like believing that there really is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. I mean, if it was just a small group of people, okay, I could see that and dismiss them but so many people believe it it just boggles my mind, how can people turn a blind eye to reality? Don't they ever stop for a moment to think, "now exactly how did that happen?" but when I ask the only response I get is "God can make anything happen". What kind of a lunatic answer is that? Adam and eve for example, that is impossible, there is simply not enough genetic diversity in two poeple to start a new race of humans. Noahs ark: where in the world did all that water come from and where did it all go? Yeah right, split the dead sea? Suuuuuure, I will believe that when I see it! What are your thoughts.

If this offends anyone let me know and I will delete it. I am honestly just curious. I am not saying it is right wrong, because I don't really see any problem with believing on those stories, I just want to have a discussion.

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Old 05-14-2010, 04:18 PM   #2
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Default Re: The bible?

I don't have to believe it literally to be inspired by it. I always find it amazing that people from long ago struggled with the spiritual vs the secular world. The details may be different but there is nothing new under the sun.
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Old 05-14-2010, 04:31 PM   #3
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Default Re: The bible?

Not sure if you are asking for a flame, looking for a fight, or just bored. Personally, while I believe you are entitled to your opinion, I find the tone and accusatory words contained herein, to be inflammatory and offensive.

I am a very logical person...otherwise I would have never made it through law school. Logic rules. You know, I could look back at history and find it full of tall stories and sexist beliefs too....in fact I do, but I don't out of hand discount it. History is full of heroic feats, defeats, and accomplishments. Even most historians believe that parts of the bible are TRUE......there was a king Soloman, there is historical and anthropological evidence of this. Most historians believe that Jesus Christ and his crusifixtion happaned....they only dispute whether He rose from the dead. All history is open for interpretation...........interpretation is subjective.

I wasn't there at the beginning of the universe. I can't definitively prove that there was a cosmic big bang [which I personally find just as unbelieveable as you find the story of Adam and Eve] or the world was created in 6 days, with the 7th being a day of rest. Neither can scientists definitively disprove there is a God.

I personally believe that the bible is God-inspired. And like ancient history, was written by men, sometimes several years, or hundreds of years later. I believe there was more stories written, but controlled by the Catholic church and suppressed for centuries. There are many famous historians that wrote about history years after the acts happened....this does not make it fantastic or unrealistic.

Reality is subjective.......I can't understand not beliving in a creator, but too each his/her own. What does it matter to you what people actually believe? I believe at the end of the day, I am a better person for it. So, if I believe in the bible and it's stories, and I am a better person--why is this dumbfounding or boggle your mind? Furthermore.....hey, if I am wrong, what's the worst that happens to me? I led a better life, I die, and replenish the earth....no harm done.....but what if I am right? I don't understand your reality, lack of faith, or "reality" as you see it, but I am not dumbfounded by it.........I don't attack it......I don't say that you are turning a blind eye to it (which actually infers a lack of intelligence). That's your reality. I don't understand it, but I refuse to mock it or look down on it, or even say that it is not reality.....for you it is. It's just not mine.

I have seen some unexplainable, unaccountable things happen in life. I have not seen the dead sea part, but I HAVE seen a limb grow 4 inches in 27 seconds before my eyes....yes, I was sober.......no it was not a hoax. I have seen a man with the tumor of the size of an orange, say goodbye to his family, have hands laid on him in prayer, wake up from a coma and walk the next day, tumor and cancer gone, doctors puzzled with no explaintion-------parting of the red sea? Nope......incredible? ____ yes........ And it makes me further believe that there is credence to the retelling of the parting of the red sea.
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Old 05-14-2010, 06:15 PM   #4
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Default Re: The bible?

I am with LSL on this 100%.

Your post begins by saying you are "curious"... as if you're looking for people to share their personal opinions with you on the topic. However, the tone of the rest of your post seems intentionally insulting to those from whom you claim to be seeking opinions...

However, I can look past that. Choosing to be offended and react accordingly will accomplish nothing.

As many people here know, I, like LSL, am a Christian. I grew up in a Catholic household, just like you did. I attended a Catholic school, just like you did. And I questioned my faith. Intensely. Just as you have.

I am no longer a Catholic. I do not identify with "religion", as it is a man-made set of rules, traditions, and rituals that just doesn't work for me. Some people take comfort in religion, as it gives them a sense of security being told how to worship, what to worship, when to worship; and a sense of belonging with a church family that follows these rituals together. Religion is appealing to a lot of people. But not to me. I have yet to find a church family with whom I feel a strong connection. Although, I am still searching. I identify more with non-denominational, inter-denominational, pre-denominational churches.

I believe in God as my Father, Jesus Christ as my savior and brother, and this believe and love in my creator and savior guides me in every step of my life. I don't have irrefutible scientific "proof" that God exists, just as I don't have irrefutible scientific "proof" that He does not. I have my faith. And all I can tell you is the feeling of believing, trusting, following, worshiping, is the most exhillerating, most freeing feeling I have ever felt.

I could honestly go on and on, but I would challenge you to read through this website, and the resources it provides. http://www.doesgodexist.org/

I understand your questions and concerns, because there was a time when I had them, as well. And when I would present these questions to people, the responses I received were far from what I was hoping to receive. I was met with criticism and anger from people who wanted to know "how dare I question God" or "how dare I question my faith"... But what I was hoping for - praying for (whether I realized it at the time or not) - was for someone to guide me. To tell me it was ok to question things - that it was in fact normal and healthy to question things. And to help me understand.

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Old 05-14-2010, 06:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: The bible?

LSL I agree with your post. I don't know or even care if the world was created in 6 days, 6 seconds or 6 billion years...what I do know is that it is here and so am I. There are things which have happened which are beyond this physical world that have happened to me. No Red Sea partings for me either, but things which are incredible and truly awe inspiring.
It leads me to a better life having faith.
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Old 05-15-2010, 01:04 AM   #6
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Default Re: The bible?

There is a location in the southern end of the Red Sea there it is very shallow and had coral reefs near the surface.
I don't even pretend to understand God, and I can not explain the Peace I do have when I Pray and let God take my worries. The problem I have is I loose focus. If I did not have my faith and my boys I could have lost it during my crisis time. It's still hard, and I will just take it on Faith.
If I am wrong and there is no God,then it won't matter, and If I am right then I have all of eternity in Heaven. As for my life here, I do believe, and while I fall short, I do try to follow Christ. I believe the most Important lesson He had, After how to be Saved, was to forgive. I have to forgive. even my ex, even each time she cheated, lied and other wise wronged me, I have to forgive her. Each and every time. That does not mean I lay down and let her hurt me and my sons again, it means I let my right to revenge and retribution go.

As for the Bible being real....well I have to take it on Faith. And I feel better knowing that all the pains and hurts here are only temporary.

Also a though.....If there is no God then where do our Rights listed and recognized in the US Constitution come from? And who can say what Rights we do have?
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Old 05-15-2010, 01:45 AM   #7
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Default Re: The bible?

You cant believe in what you dont see. People who believe in God, do see... its amazing what we see.. A relationship with God is not a make believe for us. Its real time interaction with God. I have found that people dont give God a chance to say anything to them or show them anything...
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Old 05-15-2010, 07:52 AM   #8
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Default Re: The bible?

I told my boys I cannot take my love for them and put it in a jar, weigh it, measure it or photograph it.......but they said it's there cause "they know". Same with God. You may not be able to see faith but you can see what it does.
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Old 05-16-2010, 07:11 AM   #9
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Default Re: The bible?

nice example muskiedad
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Old 05-26-2010, 04:24 PM   #10
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Default Re: The bible?

I totally forgot about this thread! I am sorry that my original post sounded a bit offensive, but in reading the responses I am getting a lot of the same responses I get from church people I try to talk to, when I say I don't believe that the stories in the bible actually happened, they immediately assume that I am saying that I don't believe in God, not exactly sure where that connection comes from, but the same thing happening here.

In fact, I DO believe in God (mostly), I just don't belive in the bible.

However, I don't think there is anything wrong with believing in the bible either, unless it is taken out of context. The only thing worthwhile I think that is in the bible is the 10 commandments, that is a really great set of rules to live one's life by. However, I don't think many people live by those rules to the T. For example, "thou shall not kill" is the one I have the biggest issue with.

To me this means "thou shall not kill". Period, nothing, not even an ant. When a person eats a steak or pork chop, they are committing a sin. I have read the bible to find out if it says "thou shall not kill humans" or something of the like, but it doesn't say that, it only says "thou shall not kill" so I don't get why so many people sin and eat meat?

Also, I hear people say "I believe in God to be on the safe side..."

I don't get that either, how can you FORCE yourself to bevieve in something? I mean, you either believe or you don't, you can't force yourself to believe in something, can you? I know I sure can't. Maybe that phrase should be reworded to something like "I am going to respect and worship God just in case" because you don't have to believe to show respect, I mean, how can you force that deep rooted set of beliefs down deep inside?

Example, a beautiful woman who believes she is ugly. She can't just suddenly turn around one day and start believing she is beautiful, resetting self esteem standards takes therapy and time, and lots and lots of practice, I think beliving in God is the same thing.

I tried to go to Bible study, because I WANT to believe, I am questionable in believing in God, but I want to believe in God, but I can't seem to throw myself over the edge and say, YES, I do believe, without the shadow of a doubt. There is that doubt. So I go to church, I even went to bible study, and I have tried to talk to people, but then I start to ask questions: "well how come this?" and "why is that?" and I am immediately dismissed as a nut case or a trouble maker. That is what happened in bible study.

I asked "why did they sacrifice animals when they were the ones who did something wrong?" the guy responds with "because blood must be shead as a retonement for their sin" and I responded with "but the animal isn't the one who committed the sin, so why is it the animal whose blood must be shed, shouldn't it be the sinners? Why does the animal have to be the one, the innocent bistander that must die for a crime that animal never commited".

I got marked off as a nut case.

I think I love animals too much to be a Christian, I think I would be best to be a Buddhist to believes in God which is what I pretty much am. It is the animal thing that gets me with christianity, I don't see animals as lower life forms, there for our pleasure, I see them as living breathing feeling creatures who have the the right to live a life free of suffering as much as I do. I think I have a totally diffent way of looking at the world then most people, that is where I run into problems with these kinds of discussions, it all boils down to the animal thing. For example, when I look at a cow I don't see a steak, I see a beautiful animal, proud and friendly. When I look at a pig I don't see bacon, I see just a pig. The thought of killing an animal really makes me sick, honestly. I just don't see animals that way...it is VERY hard to explain.

What do you see when you look at a dog? Do you see a doggie steak? Doggie bacon? Technically, what ever you do to a pig or cow you could do to a dog, but you don't. You look at a dog and see a dog. I look at ALL animals that exact same way, the thought of killing an animal is along the same lines as killing a dog or cat.

So that is I think why I have a problem with the bible, I don't believe that it is right to kill, and the bible has a lot of killing in it.

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Old 05-26-2010, 04:34 PM   #11
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Default Re: The bible?

I don't have the answer to the animal sacrifice except to suggest that in those times a person had value by the animals they kept. To atone, the sacrifice had to be substantial, therefore one had to give up something of true value, i.e. an animal. The ritual itself is one thing but the very act of giving up something to seek forgiveness shows the forgiveness was sincere, not just words. That's how I interpret that.
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Old 05-26-2010, 04:58 PM   #12
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Default Re: The bible?

In the Old Testament, under the Law of Moses, animals were sacrificed as God commanded that blood must be shed in order for sins to be forgiven. One of the reasons was to serve as a reminder to the people. The animal sacrifices were made continuously because, as it states in the bible, animal blood was not sufficient to cleanse the sins of man, but Jesus became the true and complete sacrifice when his blood was shed for all of our sins. After the time of Jesus, animal sacrifices ceased.

If the sinner, as you suggest, were to be sacrificed instead of an animal, all of mankind would have become extinct, as there is not one among us who is not a sinner.

---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------

I can respect your views on animal life, but I disagree with your belief that an animal being killed is equivalent to a child being killed.

If my house was on fire and I could save only my child or my dog, there wouldn't be any hesitation on my part to leave the dog behind to save my child's life.
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Old 05-26-2010, 05:03 PM   #13
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Default Re: The bible?

Doesn't God love animals too? Arn't they also His children?

That is what I don't get. Why are humans considered so much greater and more important then animals?

And couldn't blood be shed without killing?

Muskie had a pretty good explanation, but I wish they could have found something better to sacrifice then a poor terrified innocent animal! Okay, now this is starting to sound like the way it did before I got kicked out of Bible study!

---------- Post added at 04:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:59 PM ----------
Quote:
I can respect your views on animal life, but I disagree with your belief that an animal being killed is equivalent to a child being killed.

If my house was on fire and I could save only my child or my dog, there wouldn't be any hesitation on my part to leave the dog behind to save my child's life.
Alex, I updated my post, I realized that I don't see it that way either, so I updated it to a dog. I think most people look at dogs and cats the same way I do, but most people are different then me in that they don't see "slaughter" animals (cows, pigs, chickens) the same as dogs and cats, which I do. You guy read too fast! I usually change my post like 3 times before I finally let it go!
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Old 05-26-2010, 05:13 PM   #14
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Default Re: The bible?

Also, as a Christian, the belief that this world is only temporary is vital. All life must end; we all must die.

If you look at death as an evil, then yes, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

But an innocent soul will go to heaven. As will a soul of one who has found peace and love through a relationship with Jesus. And to those of this world who make it to heaven, this earth is the closest thing to ____ they will ever experience. In death, they are freed from their ____ and brought to a much greater place - one that we will never understand unless we make it there ourselves.

God tells us that we must suffer. We all must endure pain and challenges and loss. And it is through our suffering that we are given the opportunity to come to the realization that we need nothing of this world apart from Him. God does not force pain on his children because he hates them or sees them as less of a life form than another - he puts all of us through pain, suffering, and death as that is how we grow closer to Him.
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Old 05-26-2010, 05:17 PM   #15
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Default Re: The bible?

I will say that God loved animals and made man to love animals as well. God took the time with Adam, by bringing animals one by one to him, and had him name each in every creature in the Garden of Eden.

While the Old Testament laws commanded animals to be sacrificed, there were also injunctions against animal cruelty. Animals were not to be overworked (Ex 23:12) or underfed (Dt 25:4), nor were they to be hunted to extinction (Dt 22:6-7). Even wild animals were provided for, since they were given leftover food (Ex 23:11). In addition, Proverbs 12:10 says, "A righteous man cares for the needs of his animal."

Now, why the animal........I may be wrong, I am not a theologian. But here is what I think. Man sinned and fell. God's plan from the beginning, when finding Adam in the Garden hiding from him, was to bring Jesus to this earth as the ultimate sacrafice. Man himself cannot resist temptation and sins all the time. What is unique about an animal???? The animal DOES not sin, and is the only, true innocent. Period. The illustration of shedding innocent blood through animals is something that God required. And what the Jews at the time began to recognize in the need for a Messiah. Flash forward to Christ........God in man's flesh, innocent, called the Lamb of God by some, and He was Sacraficed, pierced and poured out blood for OUR sin.......after the coming of Christ, animal sacrifice was no longer needed.

Now, if you read the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy, you will find that God had many, many rules to diminish the pain of the animal.

But, you also have to realize that God provided animals as food as well. It is our duty to be good stewards of the animals, to care for them, to have dominion over them, but we are also allowed to eat them. Why this contradiction? Not sure..... I will say this though-----even plants "feel" pain, it's been proven. It's part of the circle of life and part of the nature of living and death.
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Old 05-26-2010, 05:23 PM   #16
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Default Re: The bible?

Alex, I don't really understand your point?

---------- Post added at 04:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:18 PM ----------

LSL, I don't get it.

So you sin, so you have to kill an innocent creature to pay for your sin?

That is like stealing money from your neighbor who did nothing wrong to pay off your debt you incurred doing something illegal, that isn't logical...
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Old 05-26-2010, 05:27 PM   #17
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Default Re: The bible?

You missed my whole point.........Animals = the lamb of God [Jesus]. In essence, we killed the son of God to atone for our sins. Animals were representative of the shedding of INNOCENT blood, for our ugliness. Why God chose that, I don't know. I am not God, I do not know the mind of God.

On the flip side, I respect that you feel as you do.............but have you ever thought about how many living beings you kill just walking to work, driving to work, going about your day? You don't mean anything by that, but hey, aren't they sacraficing their lives so that you might go about yours? Because that is what you are advocating.....
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Old 05-26-2010, 05:29 PM   #18
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Default Re: The bible?

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Originally Posted by SingleMom123 View Post
Alex, I don't really understand your point?

---------- Post added at 04:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:18 PM ----------

LSL, I don't get it.

So you sin, so you have to kill an innocent creature to pay for your sin?

That is like stealing money from your neighbor who did nothing wrong to pay off your debt you incurred doing something illegal, that isn't logical...
A sacrifice is not a punishment for the one being sacrificed.

Look at death not as an evil, but as a blessing.

An innocent soul will go to heaven. The death of the innocent is not a punishment for the innocent - it is setting the innocent free.

I wish I had more time to elaborate more... hopefully LSL can help me out... I have to get back to work
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Old 05-26-2010, 05:38 PM   #19
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Default Re: The bible?

Oh, I get the Jesus thing, so I understand what you are saying.

What I don't understand is how shedding innocent blood attones for anything. How does doing harm to an innocent creature act as a punishment? In my book, punishment should be something unpleasant for the person who did the crime, like how they cut off your hand in some countries if you steal. But I think that is what you are saying with you don't know the mind of God.

Also, this is why I get church people I talk to so wriled up, becuase it SOUNDS like I am trying to advocate something when really I am not, I am just asking questions, BUT I do have my own set of beliefs that are pretty hard wired in my brain, so I may be advocating a little without intending to, sorry about that.

As far as killing going to work, breathing, whatever. What I believe is that it is wrong to kill, purposefully, any living sentient being. Not sure about you, but I don't consider plants and bacteria to be sentient.

As far as the ants I run over with my car, that is not intentional, if I could see the and I would try to miss it of course, but you can't go too far down that philosiphical road. As far as plants feeling pain, personally I don't believe that one bit. I know there have been studies, but I don't believe them simply because you have to have nerve cells and a brain to feel pain, plants don't have either.

---------- Post added at 04:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:35 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexmichele07 View Post
A sacrifice is not a punishment for the one being sacrificed.

Look at death not as an evil, but as a blessing.

An innocent soul will go to heaven. The death of the innocent is not a punishment for the innocent - it is setting the innocent free.

I wish I had more time to elaborate more... hopefully LSL can help me out... I have to get back to work
If this is the case, then why are christians against abortion? Wouldn't killing a fetus then be seen as setting it free? Surely a fetus is considered an innocent, because if a person isn't given the change to be born, then they never get the chance to sin. (I am pro-life by the way, just making a statement...)
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Old 05-26-2010, 05:42 PM   #20
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Default Re: The bible?

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Originally Posted by SingleMom123 View Post
What I don't understand is how shedding innocent blood attones for anything. How does doing harm to an innocent creature act as a punishment? In my book, punishment should be something unpleasant for the person who did the crime, like how they cut off your hand in some countries if you steal. But I think that is what you are saying with you don't know the mind of God.
Doing harm to an innocent creature does not act as a punishment because it is not a punishment.

Sacrifice and punishment are not the same things.

.....

Many animals were created by God specifically designed to eat other animals. The lion or the coyote doesn't hang out in a pasture chewing on grass all day for it's nourishment... so along your lines of eating animals being against God's plan and design, how does that fit in. Just curious.

*yes, I know, I should be working...*
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Old 05-26-2010, 05:48 PM   #21
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Default Re: The bible?

So you pick and choose what to believe as well?

BTW: I am not riled at all.......repectful debates are always welcome.

I could say back to you, that intentional means something done with a purpose. When you walk down the street, or get in your car, you KNOW that a sacrifice of this is something is going to die---that is intentional. Intention requires mens rea, which is knowledge that your action is going to cause something. So, if I want to be literal about your beliefs......there you go.

And, sacrafice was never about punishment. I think that is what you would need to let go of in your reasoning. Sacrifice was about giving something of worth to God. Indeed, Abraham was asked to sacrifice his own son [though at the last minute God told him not too]. Same with animals. Animals were wealth to the people, they were food, they were ways that the person farmed or made their living. It was in preparation for worship of God, a symbolic act of worship....and one must note that often the animal was not just burnt up to nothing and wasted, but rather shared to eat with the church or priest. In fact sacrifice means to make sacred, and would have been an honor.

Again, it goes back to animals being a food supply to people. That is the difference. Animals were/are food for most people.
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Old 05-26-2010, 06:01 PM   #22
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Default Re: The bible?

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Originally Posted by SingleMom123 View Post
If this is the case, then why are christians against abortion? Wouldn't killing a fetus then be seen as setting it free? Surely a fetus is considered an innocent, because if a person isn't given the change to be born, then they never get the chance to sin. (I am pro-life by the way, just making a statement...)
The killing of a fetus is not done by order of God as an act of sacrifice for our sins. In addition, God no longer requires blood to be shed for our sins because the most perfect sacrifice has already been made.

But no Christian will argue that the souls of all the babies that have been killed haven't found their way to God in heaven. They are at peace and no longer hurting or suffering - but their killing was not done as a sacrifice or under any specific instruction from God.
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Old 05-26-2010, 06:07 PM   #23
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Default Re: The bible?

Okay, I need to go home, but this is pretty interesting.

I think I understang the sacrifice thing, I had it stuck in my head that it is punishment, I realize that wasn't right, it is about giving up something of value.

As far as animals killing animals, that is okay, for one, they don't know any better, then they were MADE for that pupose, tigers and lions have fangs and claws, for example, humans do not. We are not designed to eat meat, it isn't in our genetic make up, we evolved as herbavores. But we have the ability to eat meat to get us through times of starvation, which is not now. If I was starving, I would kill my cat to eat if I had nothing else, but there is plenty of plant based food to live off of, so why kill? But if a tiger tried to eat a vegetarian diet, the tiger would die. My point is, I don't think it is in Gods plan for humans to eat meat, hence why we have the digestive tract designed to digest plants. Meat is a starvation only food. Here is where I loose a lot of people, and to tell the truth me too.

I am going to go home now, and I probably will forget about this for two weeks depending on how busy I am at work tomorrow!

Have a great evening!!!!!
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Old 05-26-2010, 06:19 PM   #24
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Default Re: The bible?

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Originally Posted by SingleMom123 View Post
As far as animals killing animals, that is okay, for one, they don't know any better, then they were MADE for that pupose, tigers and lions have fangs and claws, for example, humans do not. We are not designed to eat meat, it isn't in our genetic make up, we evolved as herbavores. But we have the ability to eat meat to get us through times of starvation, which is not now. If I was starving, I would kill my cat to eat if I had nothing else, but there is plenty of plant based food to live off of, so why kill? But if a tiger tried to eat a vegetarian diet, the tiger would die. My point is, I don't think it is in Gods plan for humans to eat meat, hence why we have the digestive tract designed to digest plants. Meat is a starvation only food. Here is where I loose a lot of people, and to tell the truth me too.
Actually, I don't disagree with you on this at all.

But I look at vegetarianism from a different perspective - and keep in mind that I'm not an all-out vegetarian anyway.

The act of killing animals for food, to me, is not an evil.

The way most of the animals in slaughterhouses are treated during their lifetime, on the other hand, is very much an evil.

In addition to our digestive system not really being fully equipped to handle the excess amount of meat we consume on a regular basis.

I'm very particular about the meat I eat, and I eat it very much in moderation.

And again, I'm working... but I'm hooked on this thread and I can't stop.
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Old 05-26-2010, 06:29 PM   #25
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Default Re: The bible?

I actually think that animals were made for consumption, just not over consumption. We eat way too much.

I would not survive on a plant only diet......I can tell you that. I have texture issues with food that I have never been able to overcome---though I keep trying. I would die without other types of food. That being said, I am particular about what meat I eat as well. I go to a local butcher who gets his meat from local farmers that do not use hormones, steroids or antibiotics in their feed. I eat meat in moderation.

Eggs....love them. And buy them from my dad's neighbor who has chickens....at first it creeped me out....I mean some of the egg shells were GREEN........why? But I realized they tasted so much better! And his chickens are more pets then anything.

Haven't figured out the milk thing yet, but I will----

This isn't a religious conviction for me. This is the fact that when the USDA allowed the introduction of steroids, antibiotics and hormones into meat production in 1996, things started changing. Little girls are maturing faster, things are happening to our bodies that should not and allergies are developing faster than ever before. I don't think it's the meat, I think it is what they PUT in the meat.
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Old 05-26-2010, 06:51 PM   #26
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Default Re: The bible?

I'm going to have to look this up later when I get home because I don't remember all the technicalities, but there are many differences between humans and species that were designed as meat eaters. Animals that were created as carnivores contain a particular enzyme in their digestive system that helps them break down the meat. We don't have that enzyme, and therefore too much meat can cause serious problems to our systems because it can't be completely and properly broken down. In addition to that, we have a mouth-full of teeth that are clearly more comparable to those of herbivores. Humans are only able to eat meat because we discovered ways to cook it first.

In addition to that, as LSL said, there is also serious problems with everything we feed our animals, as well as what we inject them with.

And for the record, I eat eggs almost every day. Organic, free range, antibiotic free eggs.
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Old 05-26-2010, 07:44 PM   #27
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Default Re: The bible?

Vegetarianism isn't really a "christian" conviction. It is a personal conviction. Personally, a christian, a catholic, an athiest, an agnostic can all choose to be vegetarian. That is a common belief. Rather or not their beliefs on God align, somewhere in their hearts, their beliefs on diet for whatever reason do align. different thing.

I do my best to eat good meats, and good eggs etc because of what LSL said. The whole girls developing too soon etc. Sometimes it's not possible. I don't freak out. I don't eat a ton of meat, but I do eat it.

You all covered the abortion, sacrifice vs. punishment thing quite well though!

---------- Post added at 04:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:40 PM ----------

except, I guess something to understand, and it's hard to understand. Jesus was a person, in flesh, however he was God in the flesh. Not God's son, naturally. God's Son, born to a virgin mother who was chosen by God. His death was not the same as the death of say Jim Bob over in Alabama. He was given by God to us for the atonement of our sins. He knew that was his job on earth, in addition to suffering what we suffer and to raise up disciples. It is because of Jesus' death and resurrection that we no longer are held to OT laws that would require us to sacrifice a lamb or other prized animal. We don't have to do that anymore, we simply are asked to have faith that we are forgiven by God's grace. Not by anything we do to earn it.
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Old 05-27-2010, 04:13 PM   #28
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Default Re: The bible?

No, animals are not Gods children as they were not created in the image of God.

Genesis 1:26&27
Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

I hope this helps.
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