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Old 09-03-2009, 03:11 PM   #1
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Default The calm before the storm.

That's what the last week must have been.
I just got a call from E's school...the principle. She said that E was on his way down to the office for the 2nd time this day for refusing to do his work. She said that she (he came in as she was saying this) was gonna tell him that whatever work he did not complete by the end of school, he was gonna stay after until it was completed. He, of course, had a very predictable "mother of all meltdowns". She could hardly hear over him. Worse, to my experience, there is serious question if this will work.
I am SO grateful to the school for being willing to put themselves through this. If they had simply insisted that I come get him...well, to him, that is like a reward. Yeah, he'll be in big trouble with me, but he also knows that I am gonna have to do the bus route and he is gonna have to go with me. He also knows that while I will take away his games, tv and EVERYTHING...I don't know how to explain it...he just doesn't care. He knows I have no back-up.
I have been making arangments for....

OK, school just called again. Whew. They got him to quit the ____ and agree to cooperate. He isn't doing it yet, exactly, he just agreed to try. Principle...man, she's so GREAT!!! She is bribeing him now. Long story.
She had to put him in a room, with no windows, by himself, in order to impress upon him the fact that all that screaming wasn't gonna get him anywhere.
I know that sounds horrible, but ya gotta know E. The principle admitted to me that he unnerved her. She said she understands what it must be like for me and reassured me that she did not feel I was lacking as a parent. She agreed that anyone would defiiinately need back up with this stuff.
Oh thank you God!!! Gotta run to work...
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Old 09-03-2009, 03:15 PM   #2
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Default Re: The calm before the storm.

Blue, sorry it happened, but so glad you are getting the backup you need and E is learning what he needs to also.

What a difference in this principal! You are on your way and so is E!
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Old 09-03-2009, 04:42 PM   #3
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Default Re: The calm before the storm.

Yep, calm before the storm sounds right! Very typical behavior and good on the principal for figuring out quicking that taking things away does not work.
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:28 PM   #4
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Default Re: The calm before the storm.

Awe Blue....sorry he had a hard time of it today, but glad someone was there who knew what to do!!
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:46 PM   #5
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Default Re: The calm before the storm.

Well, he still got over on the principle as much as he does me. She just ended up going through the same thing I go through every night over his homework. I guess her bribe was not immeadiate enough. It required him to be good for the rest of the day. He wasn't and ended up staying after to finish his daily work.
When I got back to the school after my run she told me that she had had to sit with him and basically make him do every last question in his work. She was looking at me amazed. Said he knew all the answers, he just flatly refused to write them down!
The school psycologist was there, but she hasn't finished her eval. yet, so would tell us nothing.
I also learned that they DID test him in kindergarden. I knew they tested him for speech problems, but I didn't know about the rest. She said his IQ was 92 (this was then) and he tested well up into the 100's in....something like abilities.
This stuff seems to be all about misdirected willfulness, and a freakish ability to manipulate and sustain the efforts. To change tactics and attack your blind side. The principle even said, This is gonna be hard, cause E can, he knows enough, can read situations well enough, that he might manipulate the new scores, too. Too? She said that E is much smarter than he wants anyone to know. WTF!
So, once again E is in deep do-do with me, and I am exhausted and wanting to cry...cause even as I write this he is digging the hole I am sinking into deeper and deeper. He just NEVER lets up! I can't even describe all the stuff he says and does...he is like a tazmanian devil of ... sigh. IDK. All I asked is that he leave me along long enough to write this, but because I won't give him his game he has pulled out all the stops. He is being so fresh it's all I can do to not smack his mouth (I won't). He has informed me that he will stop when I give him his game back and that's that!
But maybe we are getting somewhere...ya'll may have just saved his life. I have been ignoreing him and I see now he has decided to do his homework. On his own! Man, I feel like I am walking on egg shells. Afraid to do anything lest I set him off again. This is insane!
I am going to make him do his homework now. Then we will shower...that's right, he will shower...and then we are going to bed.
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Last edited by Bluemoon; 09-03-2009 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 09-03-2009, 07:20 PM   #6
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Default Re: The calm before the storm.

Hang in there Blue!!!! We are rooting for you!!! Hopefully this is the storm before the calm!!!!!
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Old 09-03-2009, 07:36 PM   #7
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Default Re: The calm before the storm.

Just remember Blue...YOU ARE A GREAT MOM!!!!! Just like idig.
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Old 09-03-2009, 07:42 PM   #8
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Default Re: The calm before the storm.

Awww Blue sorry you day is going this way.Wish I could just give you a hug! I am so glad you have such a great principal , it really does help. Ian starts school tomorrow and is already working himself up with stomach pain and his throat tightening. Sometimes don't you wish you could just push the pause button and have one minute, one hour, one day with no worries?
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:12 PM   #9
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Default Re: The calm before the storm.

He sounds like one of mine...he tries so hard to wear you down, to do things on his terms. Around here I tried taking away privelleges to no avail. Then I started by making them earn privelleges. They must earn their tv time to watch their favourite cartoon etc. by helping with dishes, garbage or whatever. I liken it to having a million dollars and someone takes away a thousand. You don't feel it much. But if you start from nothing, that thousand dollars sure looks important. It has helped here with my 3 boys. But you must stand firm.
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:15 PM   #10
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beg or prayer Re: The calm before the storm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sara1 View Post
Awww Blue sorry you day is going this way.Wish I could just give you a hug! I am so glad you have such a great principal , it really does help. Ian starts school tomorrow and is already working himself up with stomach pain and his throat tightening. Sometimes don't you wish you could just push the pause button and have one minute, one hour, one day with no worries?
Oh Sara, I'm so sorry he is having a hard time. I just re-read your post about his diagnosis...he sounds so incredibly bright and kind. I hope he has a much better year than the last one. Poor kid.

---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:31 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by muskiedad View Post
He sounds like one of mine...he tries so hard to wear you down, to do things on his terms. Around here I tried taking away privelleges to no avail. Then I started by making them earn privelleges. They must earn their tv time to watch their favourite cartoon etc. by helping with dishes, garbage or whatever. I liken it to having a million dollars and someone takes away a thousand. You don't feel it much. But if you start from nothing, that thousand dollars sure looks important. It has helped here with my 3 boys. But you must stand firm.

Wow, Muskiedad, you just set off a lightbulb in my head. It's so obvious I can't believe I missed it. I have been so defensive about being told that E is spoiled, that I don't discipline him...and I do! But E IS spoiled. He has alot of "stuff".
I took the stuff away in incriments, the more you fuss the more you lose kinda thing, but would also give it back all at once as soon as the "punishment time" was over (as long as he didn't re-offend). The way you describe it is more like Lisa's bribe theory. Do this to earn so much time doing that. I'm gonna give it a shot!
It would be easier if E had siblings to do things with, even just to commiserate with. As an only child, if he doesn't have his games to play he really has nothing to do. If he refuses the work, then he has to stare at the walls? (no, it means he will torture me) Even having friends over is a special treat....something he has to earn. I can't let him act like a brat and then let him have a friend over...and not let them play with his games, can I? Make the other poor kid be "on punishment" too? It would be different if the kid lived next door or something and could just walk home if he got bored.
E is still at it.
He had done his homework really well (I did supervise), so I told him he was still in enough trouble that he has to go to bed early and can't have his games yet, but that I would let him watch some cartoons in bed for awhile since he did such a good job on his homework. (he doesn't know it yet, but he still is gonna get that shower as soon as I finish this).
But, he had to blow it. Telling me it's not night-night time and he is NOT going to bed. So, I said yes you are, just now you are doing it w/o cartoons! And he said, If you take away the TV then I am gonna slam this tray down...and on and on.
Forgive me, please. I am just so overwhelmed and tired and scared of what the future holds for me and this kid. I can't even think straight. No wonder my hair is falling out.
I gotta go and get him in that shower...he needs to be in bed (for the first round) by 8:30. 8:00 would have been better. I hope tomorrow is a better day. I had such hope for awhile there....
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:46 PM   #11
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Default Re: The calm before the storm.

Oh, don't lose hope Blue! I know this day is discouraging, but you are on the right path. What an unbelievable strength you have! Of course you feel worn down sometimes.

I think you are going to be getting tools to help you deal with this, and you are also going to be getting some consistency at school too I think. I am not even close to be an expert on behavior but it just makes sense that if you and the school get on the same page and do the same kinds of things it will make a difference.

I might be totally off base, but I feel like he is pushing back particularly hard today because he is figuring out he is getting figured out. The old ways aren't going to keep working, so he is turning up the heat! Hold out, hold on, don't back down now!!!

IDK, Lisa might have better insight than I do with her experience with her nephew, but maybe Muskiedad is on to something? But make it smaller increments, at least to start. Instead of "you have to be good all day" make it "you have to do your homework without a fight and then you may....". Maybe it is too overwhelming or just not immediate enough a reward like you mentioned before?

It sounds almost like when you tell him he is getting a reward he automatically goes on the defensive "If you take away tv I'll slam this tray". Maybe just make him aware of the reward and when he does it just wordlessly go turn on the tv?

I'm just brainstorming here, with absolutely no experience in what you are dealing with so just ignore me if I'm not being helpful .

Here's to hoping tomorrow is a much better day for both of you!
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:24 PM   #12
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Default Re: The calm before the storm.

It does not happen quickly, but by not backing down, you can win this war of wills. And of course, you pick your battles! You described the incident with the tv and the tray. Variations of that theme have happened here. I would have said, "you can slam the tray if you wish, but the tv is being turned off whether you slam the tray or not." I would try hard to make the point that the tv will be off, regardless of his behaviour. His behaviour does not control the situation. It has been working here.

My middle son will ask me the same question over and over and over again. I answer it the first time, and after that I just say "I have already answered that question." It is working, cause the repetitive questionning is evapourating, and I find he is listening better.

As for lightbulbs going off in the head....well I find personally my lightbulbs are very low wattage and burn out easily!
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:26 PM   #13
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Default Re: The calm before the storm.

Quote:
And he said, If you take away the TV then I am gonna slam this tray down
Just breezing through here and it seems that you are getting some great support and advice already. Just wanted to add some support to help you stand firm in getting to where you want to be with him. That statement there just really stood out to me. He is most definitely VERY aware of what he's doing with his manipulating. It may take a little time, but you seem to be heading in the right direction, and solid consistency and some stubborness of your own and he'll come to realize that the gig is up and he isn't going to be able to manipulate you and others anymore. Kudos to this principal for also standing up to help steer this in a different direction. Hang in there and he'll eventually get tired of whirling up storms when he realizes that those storms do not get him the reactions that he's after, not even occasionally.
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:34 PM   #14
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Default Re: The calm before the storm.

I think your right Idig...and now that he is showered and in bed...and not screaming threats in my ear as I warn him that he had better get back in bed or...which is maybe what happened...Oh I don't know what I'm talking about.
I had offered the reward after the fact...it wasn't a bribe. He just did well with his homework, so I tried to reward the effort. Figured I would set the pattern if I could. You do this, you get something you want. But it didn't last for more than 5 minuets before he was back out here trying to tell ME how it's gonna go.
This evening I have been called Miss Mean Pants,...Miss Bossy Pants,... Lier, Lier, Pants on Fire. There was a parting name calling shot that I didn't quite get after the shower...something like Miss Annoying Pants. (I see a SpongeBobesque theme here, )
I've been "warned" that if I don't hide his computer he is gonna play it when I go to bed...and I won't even know. (the play room with the games has a lock on it, heh, heh.) The tray thing... retaliation is a common theme with him.
I've been told that he doesn't want to live here.
He told me to guess who he wants to live with?
He told me that I don't want him here...and so much more.

At that last, I told him I DID want him. He informed me that I did NOT!
I told him that if I didn't want him here, I didn't have to have him here, that I could give him away to somebody else.
He said, So why don't you?
I said, Because I love you.
He said, But you're mad at me!
I said, I'm REALLY mad at you...but I still love you. No matter what, I always love you and want you.
I feel I am being tested on this one....
I have never, ever, met a kid like him.
I'm mostly just venting here now. He is, and always has been the biggest challenge of my life.
He can be the sweetest little boy, but then....BAM! He just gets a bug up his ____ and becomes as contrary as possible.
Oh yeah, I'm not sure if I should feel guilty about this or not. He has been saying that he wants to go back to his old school. That he misses it.
The principle called his bluff on it, said, that's not why you're acting like this, cause I have talked to you old teacher, and you acted the same way when you were there! She told me he kinda narrowed his eyes at her and smiled.
So that's why I think you are right about that Idig. He used to pull this ____ and it all got blamed and dumped on me. Now he is being held responsible for his actions...all day long.

Thanks Don, and Muskiedad, E does that repetitive questioning thing too. I've been doing the same as you...but he is...well, a little better,
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Old 09-03-2009, 11:25 PM   #15
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Default Re: The calm before the storm.

Blue, I admire you so much! I know right now you feel down right tortured and unfortunately I dont know what to say to make that any better, but keep in mind that someday, hopefully soon, things will start to fall into place and get significantly better. You will be able to sit back and look at yourself and say "I am Wonder Woman, things are good and it is all my fault!"
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Old 09-03-2009, 11:42 PM   #16
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Default Re: The calm before the storm.

If E is not diagnosed with Asperger's I will be so shocked. What you described is B to a tee! He often says that his mother, or I, or Nana or Papa does not love him. He says things like, "You hate me. You are mean to me."

You have to understand that to kids like E, he does not understand emotions. He does not understand how you can love him, but be mad at him at the same time.

It will not work to reward him after a fit. You have to sit down at the beginning of the day and say, "If you do this ___________, you will get this reward. If you brush your teeth and get in bed, you can stay up until 8:30 and play videos."

My nephew has a higher than average IQ. The non-verbal part of his IQ is off the charts, his verbal/performance IQ is slightly below average. However, overall the kid is brilliant.

However, do not think that he is manipulating you and fully understanding what he is doing. He does not understand social cues and emotions enough to be that way. What he can do is understand patterns of behavior. They learn quick, "If I push this button, I get this reaction." OR, "In the past when I have done this with a teacher, this is what happens." But he is not sitting there calculating the best way to pull one over on you.

Here are some links to consider:

http://www.k12academics.com/disorder...ving-aspergers
http://life.familyeducation.com/aspe...ing/36123.html
http://www.examiner.com/x-2195-Autis...with-Aspergers
http://parentingaspergers.com/blog/h...e-assignments/

I have a ton other links, but these have been interesting reading, some of it outside of the normal box.

I know it's hard. I know what my sister goes through and it is exhausting. But getting now, instituting the rules and structure now, will make the difference between him being a juvenile delinquent, and being the next Bill Gates, or Woody Allen, or Bob Dylan, or Howard Hughes, or Jane Austen, or Thomas Jefferson [who they now believe had Asperger's]. There is a danger for educators to think it's not Asperger's because of the intelligence factor: But considering Edison, Jefferson, Van Gogh, and Howard Hughes are all proported to have had Asperger's, it's not about intelligence. What it is about is how E views the world, how E perceives the world differently from everyone else. How E sees his relation to the world.
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Old 09-04-2009, 12:41 AM   #17
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Default Re: The calm before the storm.

Thanks Lisa, for the insight and the links. I'm gonna join that forum on the one. I still have to read them all...it's late. Deffinately, the powers that be and most of the world see his behavior as disrespectful and very intentional. I confess, it's very hard for me not to as well. The principle said she believed it was intentional because he was able to turn it off like a switch...but in thinking back over it...well, he did quit the fit, but he didn't become alot more willing to do the work. IDK. I just pray the people know enough to recognize it if he does have it. I think it's all up to the psycologist now. I have heard of a DR. not too awfully far away who specializes in these things. I am gonna try to get him an appt, especially if the phycologist tells me that it is pure willfulness. There are just too many pieces that fit for me to not be as sure as humanly possible.
BTW: When the one woman was describing what it was like for her growing up...I wouldn't be shocked if I have it. I know that sounds silly...but it would explain alot. I have always been a bit of a social misfit, and for many of the reasons she related. Thanks again, so much.
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Old 09-04-2009, 12:54 AM   #18
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Default Re: The calm before the storm.

Just reading Lisa's post made me think of one important step I do with my kids, though admitedly there is no Aspergers involved, but it still helps. One must "count down" to things, such as "Guys, we are leaving in an hour." Then half an hour, then 10 minutes and so on. It's much easier than suddenly announcing "we are going now". Lisa writing about sitting them down at the beginning of the day and talking to them made me think of this. Good luck.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:23 AM   #19
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Default Re: The calm before the storm.

Oh blue I hope today goes better for you. Your a great mom keep up the good work.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:56 AM   #20
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Default Re: The calm before the storm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by confused1996 View Post
Oh blue I hope today goes better for you. Your a great mom keep up the good work.
Yes Blue! What she said. I hope today goes better...Chin up
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:59 AM   #21
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Default Re: The calm before the storm.

Hey Blue! Keep on the good work.....I know it's hard, but you are a STRONG woman and a great mom.
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Old 09-04-2009, 06:15 PM   #22
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Default Re: The calm before the storm.

Hi Guys! Thank you all sooo much. Today was a great day. E got up, got dressed, brushed his teeth...not a peep out of him about it.
Then he said, "do you remember last night?" (me> inward chuckle) "what do you mean, E?"
He says, "nevermind." I said, "Do you mean you being in trouble?" He says, "Yeah..." I said "Yeah, I remember and I forgive you."
Him, "So I can have my games back?"
Me, "No, you still have to wait for all that, I'm just not mad at you anymore. If you are good today and do all your work, then this afternoon, you can play your DS."
Him, "OK".
I had to work the midday at the MS, but all apparently went well (thank goodness). When I went to pick the kids up, the principle said E had a very good day, so he got to play his DS with his new friend C on the bus.
I also got a call from C's mom. I had sent her a note saying I would like to get the kids together to play. SO! C will be comming home with us next friday, provided everybody does as they are supposed to between now and then. This is HUGE as E needs friends so badly! I'm so happy!
If only those HS kids would graduate, . I got a couple of wisenheimers on the bus.... Wow! Great day!
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Old 09-04-2009, 06:30 PM   #23
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Default Re: The calm before the storm.

YEA BLUE!!! I'm so excited for you! See? Baby steps...sometimes the steps might be backwards, but there will also be steps forward. WOOHOO!
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Old 09-04-2009, 06:32 PM   #24
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Default Re: The calm before the storm.

Yea Blue! I've been thinkin about you today!!! Glad it was a good one!
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